EssEff

It seems to me that some of the same people who claim that fetuses are "innocent" also believe that all humans are sinners and carry the stain of Adam & Eve's sin. Catholics believe babies should be baptised ASAP, so obviously unless pooping and crying are sins, babies are born in a state of sinfulness. I can see opposing abortion on the grounds that the "babies" will all go to hell, but that's not what religionists in that camp tend to say.

Is there any biblical support for the idea that the "unborn" are innocent?

fromdownunder

I have seen the following passage used to claim that innocent children will not go to hell. I suppose that, by extension, this argument could be used form this point back to conception.

Matthew 19:

13Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them.
14Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." 15When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

But apart from that I personally am not aware of a get out of jail free card on this, although many passages of the Bible could probably be interpreted in a way that foetuses will not go to hell (as above) and many can be used to show the opposite.

Norm

hayahtowb

Isaiah 64.8 is one (God is the potter, we are the clay), and another along the same line, Jeremiah 18.6

I think that some were too good for this flesh life, so God just took them back?

Dina Noun

Makes you wonder then why 1/2 to 2/3 of human conceptions spontaneously abort. Guess God's not that talented of a potter after all.

Gamera

There really is none. I have debated this often with religious rightwingers. Usually the religious rightwinger cite various verses about how God knew a person while in the womb. But of course from a theistic perspective, God knows us not only in the womb, but from time eternal. He knows which sperm will fertilize which egg. The bible hardly needs to teach us that babies form in women's womb.

The anti-abortion religious right is simply misusing scripture to promote their particular political agenda. There is nothing wrong with deeming abortion as wrong (that's a philosophical decision we must all make). But it is wrong, in my opinion, to try to valorize that political agenda with the bible.

Indeed, the only verse I can find in the bible that relates to the death of a fetus is Exodus 21:22 -- a very difficult passage, translated all kinds of ways. But at least one interpretation treats the death of a fetus not as homicide, but damages to be determined by the family invovled.

- "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

hayahtowb

Hi Dina,
yes it does, and I should have added to my first post the other extream.

Some spirits are so bad that God just took them back too.
Edited to ask, do you think people have souls?

Dina Noun

No, pretty much for the same reasons I don't believe in the Easter Bunny or Magical Flying Pink Unicorns. I have never seen, touched, smelled, heard, or tasted one with my own senses nor with any instrument that extends my senses' abilities, nor has any other person (when judged by the criterion of peer-reviewed scientific literature: religious periodicals don't count).

Another reason I don't believe in souls is that I don't believe in all of the other supernatural baggages associated with them, which likewise have no real evidence supporting them.