Sheshbazzar

Sorry that I didn't answer your question before, however I thought that with a little time and some careful thought you would be able to comprehend the matter, and I didn't bother to make a reply because I truly thought that you had, but as your present post indicates, sadly, I overestimated your abilities.
So I'll break down my previously posted statement that is proving to be beyond your ability to comprehend, and explain it point by point.

Genesis 7:2 first clause;
"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female:"
Is this really too difficult for you? OK, Let's say the "clean" animals of the "same species" are in this instance, sheep, "seven pairs" would be fourteen individual sheep, seven males, and seven females.

End of clause one, do you understand it? do you wish to dispute whether this is the proper interpretation of the written words?

Genesis 7:2 second clause;

"and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."

Is this really too difficult for you? OK, Let's say the "beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." are in this instance, the swine, two making one pair, or two individual swine, one male, and one female.
the "same species" indicating that both unclean animals must be of the same species, ie, not pairing a male swine with a female horse (mare) though both are unclean.

End of clause two, do you understand it? do you wish to dispute whether this is the proper interpretation of the written words?

See clause one above.

See clause two above.

The above examples total sixteen individual animals, a "group"
This would comprise the "seven" pairs of clean animals of a species.
And this would comprise the "by two, the male and his female."
The total number of individual animals above delineated is sixteen (16), being in the example fourteen "sheep", seven males, and seven females,
And two "swine",- a pair-, the "male and his female".
So in the above example the "sheep" and the "swine" form a single grouping; no other animal species is included, they entered into the ark "two by two",
"the male and his female" not three abreast, not four abreast, and not sixteen abreast.
As I have broken my post down point by point, it ought to be clear to anyone reading that nowhere did I write or even imply that any single species contained both clean and unclean animals.
So you say, but several hundred million others would say that you are in error in your interpretation and understanding, and charitably, that perhaps you harbor some bias, or perhaps have a reading comprehension problem.

Tigers!

Dear Gregor
I thought I'd point out that it rained for 40 days and 40 nights and the waters stayed for another 150 days before beginning to recede.

John A. Broussard

Welcome aboard.

It's nice to learn new items like this. So that must have meant storing up an awful lot of feed for all those critters. I thought it would be tough enough doing that for a 40 day stretch.

190 days!!! Phew! Imagine cleaning up the manure just from a pair of elephants for more than half a year.

Chili

That would be hell on earth John and I think many of us here are still shoveling shit on that account.

pharoah

Hi Tigers! Welcome to IIDB! :wave:

I'm sorry to have to correct you on your very first post. :devil3:

Unfortunately, your statement is contradicted by the Bible itself. Let's look at the relevant verses.

Here's the forty days version:

Genesis 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

Now here's the 150 days version:

Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
8:1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;
8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

Notice the sequence of the second version. First it says that the waters prevailed for 150 days and then it says that God shuts off all the sources of water. Plainly it's stating that it rained for 150 days.

I'll issue a simple challenge to you. Using the book of Genesis, tell me how many days passed between the time that Noah entered and exited the ark.

Tigers!

Gudday Pharoah
I don't mind being corrected if I am wrong.
I'll take a stab at your question.
Gen 7:11 - 2nd month, 17th day of that year = 1st day = flood began
Gen 8:14 - 2nd month, 20th day of next year = day left ark

I reckon that it was 371 days, although I don't know whether it was a leap year.

Hooroo

gregor

Tiger
Thanks for admitting the error. The explanation that the Noah story is a conflation of two mythical tales appears obvious from all levels.

It is apparent from the actual language used.
It is consistent with other Genesis stories that show compilations.
It is consistent with historical and archeological evidence explaining a syncretic society.

John A. Broussard

I realize it's difficult to fully analyze fiction, but would someone please give me the actual time span during which Noah and his kin were cooped up in the ark with that menagerie? 40 days? 150 days? 371 days?

Thanks.

Craigart14

Sorry, Shesh, but when you say "seven `clean' individual animals of a species," that implies that there are unclean animals in the species. And when you follow that closely with "two `clean' animals of the same species," it implies that you are talking about one species with both clean and unclean individuals. Further, creating the quite artificial "grouping" of sixteen animals that you say God commanded is pretty tortuous apologetics. If you are serious when you state that hundreds of millions of people believe that there is no contradiction between Gen. 6:19, in which God commands Noah to take one pair of every kind of animal, and Gen 7:2-3, in which God commands Noah to take one pair of some kinds of animals and seven pairs of other kinds of animals and seven pairs of every kind of birds, then I would suggest that you and the hundreds of millions are the ones with the comprehension problems. Besides, logical fallacies don't fly very well here, and the old ad populam is a very cheap trick. And I won't even mention the fact that God didn't even tell Noah which species were clean and which were unclean.

By the way, these forums are for debate, not issuing proclamations. Just out of curiosity, I guess you could give me the final word on what Judas did with his windfall and perhaps on how he died. There seem to be some people--no doubt those with reading comprehension problems--who find contradictions in the New Testament accounts of these events.

Also, in polite company, we don't assign motives to opponents in a debate. We respond to positions; we don't assume that those who disagree with us are incapable of reading well or are biased. There are very intelligent, well-educated people on these boards. To imply, in your first post in this thread, that other posters cannot read well is simply insulting. Note that other posters in this thread have had disagreements and have resolved them with courtesy. I apologize sincerely for stooping to your level in my first response to you.

Craig

Roller

I might have missed someone already mentioning this, but I think there was no "classification" of clean/unclean animals in Noah's time. So how would he even know what to do? Of course, DH explains this through P author. I was wondering if there is some alternative explanation that won't make my head hurt.

edit: oooops! I see that Craig in above post mentioned the same issue.