Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mountain Man · 12-11-2005, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911

The universe exists because of the big bang; cannot be proven

Every atom in the universe is a part of God; cannot be proven

You need to prove the god exists BEFORE you can make any claims about it. Claiming that mater is god, is not proof.

Mountain Man · 12-11-2005, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911

How about this: man is made up of atoms; man is a sentient being

So. That is not proof of a god. It is only proof of you're getting desperate in trying to come up with an argument to support your god beliefs.

MxM111 · 12-11-2005, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911

This certainly is tragic to me, personally.

I understand you completely and I understand the believers completely.

To ask them to not believe in God is almost like to ask them to not believe in themselves and surrender fully to "science."

It is like telling lovers; according to science and logic their love is ridiculous - yet billions fall in love.

It is like telling artists; according to science and logic their their work is meaningless;yet billions love their work

It is like telling gamblers; stop gambling, the house always wins... yet you will never stop people going to the casinos.

Your first two examples are strange, and I would say incorrect. According to psychology, history and anthropology (which are sciences) love is not ridiculous and art is not meaningless.

The last example is about right how I would describe religious people - a gamblers who can not stop gambling. It is like mental deviation from norm, but on a mass scale and thus they are defying what norm is, and thus it is not considered as deviation, but rather as norm.

-RRH- · 12-11-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911

How about this: man is made up of atoms; man is a sentient being

This is unusual. Most theists tend to not be materialists, and would propose that bot man and God are made of more than atoms.

Autonemesis · 12-11-2005, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911

The universe exists because of the big bang; cannot be proven

But...

The universe exists
The universe was smaller in the past
If physics is uniform through time and space, then the expansion of the universe at the earliest epochs must have been very rapid.

No. 1 is not really testable, but I think we're safe assuming it. Forgive me if I wrongly assume you agree. I don't see how to proceed otherwise.

No. 2 is a fact, derived from astronomical observations collected for more than a century from all over the world.

No. 3 is a consequence of No. 1 and No. 2. The phase of rapid expansion is called the Big Bang. The universe we observe today emerged from it.

FFT · 12-11-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911

How about this: man is made up of atoms; man is a sentient being

Rocks are made of atoms; rocks are sentient beings?

Bones are made out of atoms; bones are sentient beings?

Corpses are made out of atoms; corpses are sentient beings?

Sorry, doesn't work.

911 · 12-11-2005, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Expendable

Chime in here for a second.

Didn't you use this same faulty reasoning in another thread titled "God is God" - re: 911 and London bombings will continue?

First of all, let's make this very clear: If someone chooses to BELIEVE this b.s about god and then chooses to believe that god wants such and such person to kill and bomb in his/her/it's name, then that has NOTHING to do with ANOTHER person's lack of belief, and I might add it has nothing to do with the fact that there are some people will go on believing despite any evidence to the contrary.

If a non-believer can't convince a believer that his or her beliefs are irrational, it's not opening any "floodgates" as you say, and thereby causing 911's and London bombing type events to continue, which is exactly what you are implying.

If someone REFUSES to understand, or CHOOSES to remain in a state of ignorance and then launches his/her offenses, physical or mental at people who don't agree with them, that's their own doing.

Might I add that there are plenty of people that have committed worse atrocities than 9/11, etc. without religion and god on the brain. So even if the god concept did disappear, I would be willing to bet my left AND right nut, that 911's and London bombings and WORSE will STILL happen.

RedEx

I only said what I said because many attributed "Belief in God to 911 and London."

All I am saying is that if this is the best you can do; I doubt that you can their their minds and so... 911 and London bombing will continue.

I fully agree with you that "that 911's and London bombings and WORSE will STILL happen."

I wanted to make a post about this and say China (suppresses religion

the Muslim World (supresses theism for their own kind

and the US (free for all.) You tell me which is best and which is worse?

But anyway you have given us a brilliant post and I will leave it as that.

911 · 12-11-2005, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFT

Rocks are made of atoms; rocks are sentient beings?

Bones are made out of atoms; bones are sentient beings?

Corpses are made out of atoms; corpses are sentient beings?

Sorry, doesn't work.

Sorry I don't understand your post.

FFT · 12-11-2005, 11:49 PM

You were trying to equivocate "man is made of atoms, man is sentient" with "the universe is made of atoms, the universe is sentient." I was showing you why that doesn't work. Most things made of atoms are not sentient, are not even alive.

911 · 12-11-2005, 11:56 PM

Surely not every part of the human body is "alive?"

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12-11-2005, 11:49 PM	#29
FFT Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Memphis Posts: 330	You were trying to equivocate "man is made of atoms, man is sentient" with "the universe is made of atoms, the universe is sentient." I was showing you why that doesn't work. Most things made of atoms are not sentient, are not even alive.

12-11-2005, 11:56 PM	#30
911 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 846	Surely not every part of the human body is "alive?"

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