MrMacSon

aa5874 wroteCertainly the historical method provides for different levels and different categories of evidence through different levels of source - primary, secondary, etc.

A significant problem is that Christian-biased theologians and "historians" have stated, falsely, that sources such as the synoptic/canonical gospels and Pauline documents are "primary sources".


They are attributed to single authors - very dubious attributions.

How much myth has been used is unknown.

There certainly are contradictions, and vague & dubious supernatural claims.

aa5874

The past can only be reconstructed from credible data. If we have to speculate then we cannot do history.

We can see the myth. We can read the Mythology in the NT Canon and it is claimed Jesus was FATHERED by a Ghost, was on the Temple with Satan during the Temptation, Walked on water, Transfigured, Resurrected and Ascended in a cloud.

We must not forget that it was PUBLICLY circulated and accepted that Jesus was FATHERED by a Ghost in antiquity.

I cannot accept that Jesus was a figure of history until the historical DATA is produced.

None has been produced.

If we had historical DATA for Jesus people all over the world would have claimed that the evidence show that there was an historical Jesus.

Well, now that the evidence supports Mythology I will continue to declare that Jesus was a Myth.

That is basic. Evidence FIRST-- Conclusion Last.

What is the Evidence???--Jesus was the Son of a Ghost.

What is the Conclusion???---Jesus was a Myth character.

This is NOT an argument from Silence.

Matthew 1:18 KJVThe author of gMatthew appears to believe gMark's Jesus was the Son of a Ghost.

mountainman

The historians must attempt to find new histiorical truths while explaining all the evidence, much of which in this case may have been piously forged. An explanation for this mess cannot be put into the "too hard basket". Even though Eusebius was not joking when he said we are dealing with a "lonely and untrodden path", all the evidence that we do have can be mapped and interpretations of that evidence advanced and discussed.


In theory there is an actual real historical truth, the discovery of which should vitally interest the ancient historians.


Historians are not designed to abandon hope.

They are only interested in historical truth.

Besides there are other hypothetical explanatory hopes like finding evidence to support the non existence of an historical jesus.

The entire question will always remain hypothetical and based upon the interpretation and evaluation of the historical evidence itself, and of new discoveries.




If you wish. It's your own choice.

There is a hegemony that insists that the truth value associated with the hypothesis of an historical jesus is positive. This hegemony has descended from antiquity via the centuries of the church. It could be wrong. It is an historical investigation that will determine whether this truth value is positive as the hegemony of Bart Ehrman for example recently espoused, or negative as the position of some of the mythicists here may indicate. FWIW I think its negative, for example.

sotto voce

How does one forge piously?

anethema

Although I find most of your arguments cogent aa, the son of aghost one just doesnt hold water historically. The depiction of Hatshepsut being fathered by a god-amun(the hidden one-divine breath) at dier-al-bahri is only one instance of real historical people mytholigized after death. Iunderstand this is apples and oranges one being a pharoah and the other a galileean jew but the "idea" behind both is historically valid for the time period.

aa5874

I am arguing that Jesus had NO real existence so it is IMPERATIVE that I show that is Documented and Publicly circulated in antiquity that Jesus was the Child of a Ghost without a human father and God the Creator.

If I wanted to argue that Pilate was a Governor amd Tiberius was an Emperor then I would need sources that described them as such.

In the Bible Tiberius was Emperor, Caiaphas was High Priest, Pilate was Governor, Gabriel was an Angel, Satan was the Devil and Jesus was the Son of a Ghost, and Son of a God.

The Bible is a Compilation of Myth Fables. God made Myth ADAM in Genesis and Myth Jesus in the Gospels.

God MADE MYTH ADAM with DIRT and MADE Jesus in Mary with a Holy Ghost.

ADAM and Jesus are PRODUCTS of Mythology.

Now, tell me of the History BEHIND ADAM, first Myth Man???

Then tell me the History of the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God--Myth Jesus???

We know their "History"!!! ADAM and JESUS are the mythological PRODUCTS of a Myth God.

mountainman

Here is an example sv:

sotto voce

Not so fast with the celebration, mm, for the commiseration is homeward bound. That is how to forge impiously. With venality. With comic hypocrisy, to boot. To defenestrate. It's a master-class in devoted self-denial.

Now 'fess up, one cannot forge— counterfeit— falsify— with a good conscience. One can forge with a good conscience if one is a blacksmith. A forger is either a blacksmith, or a blackguard. No shades of grey.

mountainman

One can forge in the best of consciences if one is a good professional forger. Gold speaks all languages. Dear Seneca, my Friend and writer of First Century Letters to Important gatherings Like Me, this is - guess who? - that's right ... your good buddy PAUL-IN-JESUS-CHRIST-AMEN !!


Snake oil is extra.

"Dear King Agbar,

Guess who's writing a letter to you?

sotto voce

You have to find one, first. Keep on looking.

So an expert safe-breaker doesn't go to prison. I suppose there's some logic in that.

Oh, hilarious.