Originally Posted by Steven Carr

Is there anything new in Ehrman's book, which would make people hear think 'Gosh, I never knew that?'

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

Wait, what Roger and Andrew are contending??? Look, we all know that the Dec 25 date has nothing to do with First Century Christianity, so it can have no bearing on the origins of Christianity.

Originally Posted by avi

Thank you Joe.
I have two related questions:
(perhaps, already asked and answered on some other thread--if so, I apologize for the repetition.)

1. Why would a Roman governor (speaking Latin, presumably) stoop to interview an itinerant, Aramaic speaking preacher, accused of a capital crime? Is it understood that this undistinguished, relatively youthful, Jewish traitor spoke Latin? Alternatively, since this is Greek literature, are the readers to imagine that both Jesus, and Pilate, spoke Greek? Was it customary for Roman Governors of a province of the Roman Empire to bring a translator to a meeting between the Governor and a prisoner awaiting crucifiction?

2. Who recorded this supposed conversation between Jesus and Pilate? How did such a person have access to the inner sanctum of a Roman Governor's palace? Or, are we to believe that the Roman Governor instead, departed from his lovely home to visit the squalid jail housing the treasonous prisoner, prior to the latter's execution? What motive could the Governor have had for making such a gesture? Is there any evidence of any other Roman Governor in Palestine, or anywhere else, visiting prisoners condemned to death for treason?

Perhaps attention to detail was unimportant in writing Greek mythology? Since the authors of the Gospels were Greek, perhaps they simply assumed that everyone else knew Greek too....? Maybe two millenia ago, everyone did know Greek! Was the educational system in the Roman colonies so much more sophisticated than our own educational system, where most of the USA population is illiterate in even one language, let alone two.

regards,
avi

Originally Posted by darstec

Well that is obvious since there is zero evidence for a first century Christianity. But then when Christianity did start becoming popular, do you suppose all of them celebrated the birth of Joshua? If you did, you would be wrong. Now since at least a few Church Fathers lived around the Holy Land area, they would have known that shepherds were not in the fields watching their sheep in the dead of winter. Or do you suppose Israel does not get cold in winter.

So what reason do you suppose they decided to pick an obviously illogical time to celebrate the birth of Joshua if it wasn't to override and put new emphasis on a pagan holiday?

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

The problem with this is the very limited evidence for an ancient pagan festival in the mediterranean area on the 25th of December.

Andrew Criddle

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

Wait, what Roger and Andrew are contending??? Look, we all know that the Dec 25 date has nothing to do with First Century Christianity, so it can have no bearing on the origins of Christianity.

But the question of what celebrations were performed for the winter solstice (NOT "what celebrations were performed in winter") is still an interesting one. AFAIK Saturnalia was NOT a winter solstice celebration (unless someone knows otherwise)

So: What pre-Christian celebrations were performed for the winter solstice, and what is the evidence for it?

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

Well Tacitus writes that Nero blamed the fire on Christians. But Seutonius, writing about the same fire, never mentions any Christians being blamed by Nero... just that he punished them.

Not sure if it's "firmly" historical, but it could be. There seems to be a debate over whether Tacitus wrote "Christians" or "Chrestians". If it's "Chrestians", then that would be translated as "good/useful ones" I think.