Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Magus55 · 04-10-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWho

In Job, God and Satan are on equal terms.
1. Satan can visit, chat him up and even engage in a little side bet over Job's fate.
2. Satan, in Job has supernatural powers.

Satan and God are hardly on equal terms. Satan can't do what God doesn't allow him to do. Of course Satan has powers - he was the most powerful angel in Heaven. Do you expect him to be impotent?

Quote:

Furthermore:
According to current Christian mythology, Satan's domain is the earth and he can pretty much do whatever he wants. You can't go to a fundamentalist church these days without them spending a considerable amount of time worrying about Satan’s growing power or reciting binding spells on Satan. Satan is apparently omnipresent, very powerful and considerably smarter than any non-Christian.

True, Satan has power on Earth, but Satan is hardly more powerful or equal to God. Satan isn't omnipresent, and has absolutely no comparison to God's power.

Quote:

Again:
Satan hangs out with god, and is allowed to use his magical powers to harass humans. Satan has dominion over the earth to the point that Christians constantly have to fight him off and according to Christians is winning the battle for our souls.

Satan sounds like a god on the scale of one of the Greek gods.

Satan doesn't "hang" out with God - again, God has authority over all creation, even Satan. Hence Him being a Sovereign being. And Satan isn't exactly winning anything. He loses everything. His fate is already well established, and even he knows it. Satan can't force you to renounce God - he can only influence you to make the choice.

ex-preacher · 04-10-2005, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus55

And Satan isn't exactly winning anything. He loses everything. His fate is already well established, and even he knows it.

If Satan knows he's going to lose, what keeps him going? Is he just really stubborn, like when my wife won't apologize even though I'm always right?

Agnostic Theist · 04-10-2005, 01:06 PM

Satan has nothing against God...sort of. His grudge is against us, so he tries to take as many of us with him before being tossed in a certain lake.

Apparently he takes a lot.

Magus55 · 04-10-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-preacher

If Satan knows he's going to lose, what keeps him going? Is he just really stubborn, like when my wife won't apologize even though I'm always right?

Satan probably doesn't like that God values humanity, so he takes it out on us to get back at God. If he's going to hell anyway, what does he have to lose?

Wallener · 04-10-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visionary7

Satan is God's extreme adversary.

A G-d in the Abrahamic sense cannot have an adversary, extreme or otherwise.

Wallener · 04-10-2005, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWho

Satan hangs out with god, and is allowed to use his magical powers to harass humans.

That should be expected, since Ha-Satan works for G-d.

Ether · 04-10-2005, 10:22 PM

The standard is that there are three persons in the Godhead, the father, son and holy spirit.

Now, my concern is not with how many persons there are, how they fit into one and much less how they relate to one another. My real concern is with the RELEVANCE of it all, I mean what possible usefulness is there on believing that God is a trinity or not? What does it change and how is it relevant to one's life?

Visionary7 · 04-11-2005, 06:52 PM

One.

jaydoc · 04-11-2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus55

Satan and God are hardly on equal terms. Satan can't do what God doesn't allow him to do. Of course Satan has powers - he was the most powerful angel in Heaven. Do you expect him to be impotent?

True, Satan has power on Earth, but Satan is hardly more powerful or equal to God. Satan isn't omnipresent, and has absolutely no comparison to God's power.

Satan doesn't "hang" out with God - again, God has authority over all creation, even Satan. Hence Him being a Sovereign being. And Satan isn't exactly winning anything. He loses everything. His fate is already well established, and even he knows it. Satan can't force you to renounce God - he can only influence you to make the choice.

The problem with this answer is that it begs the question of ‘Why doesn’t god get rid of Satan if he is so damn bad?’ Apparently we are very good at sending our own selves to hell with all our terrible sinning- so why add an instigator to the situation??

It seems that god wants to make sure hell is quite full…

Magus55 · 04-11-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydoc

The problem with this answer is that it begs the question of ‘Why doesn’t god get rid of Satan if he is so damn bad?’ Apparently we are very good at sending our own selves to hell with all our terrible sinning- so why add an instigator to the situation??

It seems that god wants to make sure hell is quite full…

Thats one of the questions that only God ultimately knows the answer. We could come up with ideas about why. For example Satan provides a method for God to show us the danger of not relying on Him. Would we really care about God and good, if we didn't have anything to compare it to? Satan also serves as a example of the futility of trying to rebell against God. Ultimately God wins, and rebelling does no good.

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04-10-2005, 01:06 PM	#23
Agnostic Theist Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Posts: 4,822	Satan has nothing against God...sort of. His grudge is against us, so he tries to take as many of us with him before being tossed in a certain lake. Apparently he takes a lot.

04-10-2005, 10:22 PM	#27
Ether Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: United States Posts: 70	The standard is that there are three persons in the Godhead, the father, son and holy spirit. Now, my concern is not with how many persons there are, how they fit into one and much less how they relate to one another. My real concern is with the RELEVANCE of it all, I mean what possible usefulness is there on believing that God is a trinity or not? What does it change and how is it relevant to one's life?

04-11-2005, 06:52 PM	#28
Visionary7 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: -World Forum (Int'l)- Posts: 712	One.

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