Didymus

Seems like you're making some unfounded assumptions.

Keep in in mind that the gospels weren't based on Paul's writings per se but only on a somewhat similar tradition of a crucified savior named Jesus. It's quite possible that there was parallel development in distant communities. We don't know when or where the notion of a historical Jesus began, although the canonical gospels have him crucified under Pilate, who ruled from 26 CE to about 36. But the Jerusalem narrative - which is largely based on Psalms and Isaiah - could have been attached to the Galilee stories very close to the time Mark was written. Or even by the anonymous Markan author himself!

You're assuming Jesus was a historical figure who died in the early 30's, in which case the story would not have been a myth.

Isn't it amazing that Paul doesn't bother to mention that those "apostles" had been Jesus' companions during Jesus' earthly ministry? As far as can be ascertained from Paul, they were merely church leaders, one of whom - James - was known as "the brother of the Lord." Paul makes no mention of any conversations he had with them about Jesus' life or teachings, nor does he ascribe to them any special authority based on their roles as companions of Jesus. How implausible is that?

Most likely, John, Peter and James showed up in the gospels because those names were associated with both the Galilee and Jerusalem legends about a crucified god/man named Jesus.

Didymus

robto

But you have to remember that "Christ" doesn't mean "God". Neither Paul nor the Synoptic gospels call Jesus "God" - that only comes with John, c. 90 AD.

This isn't a problem once you realize that there were "Christians" BEFORE there was a Christ. That is, ideas about who or what Christ/Messiah/the Lord was had developed even before Jesus's time, and were taken over into Christianity by applying them to Jesus. The claim that "Jesus is the Christ" only makes sense if people ALREADY have an idea of what "Christ" means.

Damian

Question from ignorance: who/where were the people that were considered "christians" prior to there being a christ? If you don't feel like elaborating, perhaps a link?

Thanks!

robto

1. They wouldn't have been CALLED "Christians" (hence the scare-quotes).

2. There were many different ideas about the Messiah, see Neusner's book.

robto

Here's a link to an article that toches on some similar ideas.

Damian

Yes, I gathered that--i just meant "where are the references to 'Christians' prior to Christ?"

Thanks for the links.

Julian

[MOD]
Again, the idea here is to present a short blurb that explains the answer. While it is okay to link to supporting articles, that should be complementary. The answer should be discernible from the post without the reader having to schlep through a long article, book or external post.

Also, remember that we are presenting mainstream, generally accepted theories here.

Also also, if discussion is desired on a particular topic, start a thread in the forum.

Also also also, remember this thread is for novices.

Julian
Moderator BC&H
[/MOD]

Daisy

Was Abraham's father Jewish? When did Judaism start and what were they before?

TIA

TomboyMom

cool question.

Wads4

I believe Abraham, and presumably also his father, were of the nomadic people called the Amorites, and that he settled in Ur in Sumeria/Akkad. Being nomadic would account for him only having the one sky-god, which became the traditional Yahweh the God of Isaac/ Jacob etc. There is no evidence of written Hebrew before the 10th century BC,--also Israelite polytheism was in competition with the priestly monotheism cult of Yahweh,--hence the bit of bother between him and Baal, Asherah etc later in the 8th century, with Elijah taking on the priests of Baal. Purer monotheism probably did not develope until during or after the exile in Babylon. When the northern kingdom of Israel was destroyed by the Assyrians, that just left Judah, and Judaism,-at which point they were carried off by the Babylonians. Hope that helps.