Chili

John is not interested in learning anything. He's been through the wringer once and now he's just looking for some vengeance to make him feel better.

John A. Broussard

The Catholic Encyclopedia is a good source for checking on Catholic doctrine, though don't assume it's the official word. That's where I finally ran down the 5th century reference. My interest is to find out exactly which parts of Catholic dogma are infallible. So far I've gotten dozens of different answers, but the Assumption is the one consistent one, so I was looking for the rationale behind it. Incidentally, you might ask one of your Jeevies where to look up the official source of all infallible pronouncements. A truly offical list would be nice. I can't seem to unearth it.

Good luck with your studies. I had four years of Jesuit education. In retrospect, I think it could have been better, but it beats Bob Jones for sure.

yalla

Check out this book: "Alone of All Her Sex-the myth and the cult of the virgin Mary" by Marina Warner, Weidenfeld and Nicholson London 1976.

Wallener

The immaculate conception is another. The document you are looking for re: the assumption is (I believe) the Munificentissimus Deus (1950) by Pius XII. Note that only the sentence or two declaring Mary "assumpted" is infallible: the logic, reasoning, etc, is not claimed to be infallible.

Chili

Good point. The logic and reasoning are given towards human understanding but are not exactly as the literal interpretation reads. They are inspired concepts such as the Trinity, the bodily assumption of Mary, the Immaculate Conception, the Virgin Birth and the Perpetual Virginity of Mary. I guess the bible itself is much the same, inspired and true but not on the surface reading.

John A. Broussard

Thanks for reference. Do you have something similar re the Syllabus of Errors? I repeatedly encounter the Catholic view that that is also an infallible pronouncement but can't find anything as clearly stated as the above one for the assumption.

andrewcriddle

Munificentissimus Deus

Andrew Criddle

Wallener

IIUC, not infallible, but rather it reflects the "infallible judgement" of the church. Clinton has nothing on the hair-splitting the church is capable of!

John A. Broussard

Do you have the site where I can look that up. I'd like to quote the Church's original document.

You'll have to forgive the Church, since it's no easy task to monitor ones own infallibility infallibly.

Wallener

Sorry, John, that about exhausts my ability to delve into RCism. I can tell you, though, that prior to the Assumption of Mary doctrine being declared infallible and unquestionable, it was declared heretical by at least 2 prior popes. This might help you get further.

http://www.catholicconcerns.com/Infallibility.html

Personally, I feel the entire concept of infallibility is a steaming pile of donkey dung and will forever and a day remain a source of confusion and irritation to RCdom.

In edit: Wow, just when you think it can't get any weirder...

http://www.truecatholic.org/