Dreadnought

I see no reason to doubt what archaeologists find, but there's always a reason to be cautious when drawing conclusions from what is not found. And in this particular case there might be a kernel of truth in the story. That people were slaves in Egypt is not a remarkable claim. That the alleged slaves would have come from a nearby region is not a remarkable claim. That the Egyptians would release a large number of their slaves more or less willingly is however a bit strange. Seen from the Hebrew side it's such a strange story to make up about your own past. Claiming descendancy from slaves, as opposed to some mythical glorious past is weird and they can only do it by putting a wild heroic gloss on it with god himself stepping in to save the day when the shit hits the fan. It seems implausible that there weren't such stories circulating among the people before it was put into writing some 300-500 years after the alleged fact. I can't imagine the priests telling the people, one sunny day in the late bronze age, that they've just invented a history for them that nobody has ever heard of before.

Minimalist

Read Finkelstein. He will put the tale in context. Based on 7th century BC realities, it makes a lot more sense.

Cheerful Charlie

For hundreds of years, Egyptian conquests added lots of foreigners to the population of Egypt. Numerous foreign names are known to us in Egyptian literature and achaeological evidence. Many Canaanite gods and goddesses became popular in Egypt, Baal, Qadesh, and others.

But there are no Israelite names known from possible times of any Egyptian captivity, no mention of Yhwh. You would expect such things if there really were large numbers of Israelites in Egypt 430 years as claimed by the OT.

Again, Israel allegedly came to Egypt with a little over 70 people and left with 600,000 men of fighting age 430 years later. If so, you would expect that there would be a very heavy Egyptian nfluence on early Israelite culture. Language, tradition, pottery, et al. The early Israelites were typical Canaanites. Only Egyption weights and measures are notable in this regard, which you'd expect since Egypt was a major trade partner for centuries. I do not see any notable Egyptianisms in the Levite religious codes of Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy et al. These Levites did not have a tradition of life after death, which was the basic foundation of Egyptian religion for example. Their legal codes smack more of Hammurabi and Babylonia.

I see little evidence for Israel in Egypt where you would expect evidence. Early on, Egypt usually sents sons of local chiefs and sheiks to Egypt for education. Many of these men were proud of their status as we see in the Amarna letters, and quick to be hurt by percieved Egyptian slights.

I strongly believe that when Egyptian power in the region collapsed after Rameses VI, these semi-Egyptianized men became part of a reorganization of tribal groups in the area that gave us proto-Israelite tribal coalitions.

Hence distant rememberances of men connected somehow to Egypt.

CC

Cheerful Charlie

The other problem is that the Egyptians later invaded Retenu (Palestine) and destroyed Hyksos forts and cities. Hyksos do not fit exodus in anyway shape or form.

CC

Gullwind

I have heard that Israelite-style houses have been found at Pi-Raamses. Is there any truth to this claim?

Dean Anderson

That's interesting. In discussions, I often get Exodus believers try to dismiss Finkelstein by simply asserting that "Dever has proved him wrong" (without, of course, understanding what either Finkelstein or Deve actually says).

So do you have any quotes or references for Dever's change of mind and subsequent agreement with Finkelstein?

Cheerful Charlie

Having several of Dever's books, I can tell you Dever agrees that exodus is not historical.

CC

Doug Shaver

If not, then I guess this much of the story might be true:

Dreadnought

Thanks for this. Obviously I'm not wondering about the full numbers stated in the bible, but a small fraction of them. Regardless of numbers however one would expect a stronger Egyptian influence on religion and legal codes as the Levites mostly where the ones to define these. The lack of influence is a good point against.
I don't think we'd see much influence in Egypt by a relatively small group of Isrealites of low social standing. So this doesn't really say anything either way.
OK. I see your point here and as these men were of high standing their memories would have a larger impact on the collective memory than that of any old goat herder.

Dreadnought

That about sums it up.