Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 03-07-2009, 10:20 AM

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Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

That's not a disease, it's a statistical probability. It's like the "research" that corporations do that for some strange reason always supports the profit motive of that corporation.

If Antipope on the other thread is correct, you have a piano teacher and a biologist on one side, and all the archaeologists -- including non-Christian ones -- on the other. Which represents the "corporation research" side?

Christian tourism is big business, for both the Christians and the Israelis.

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Randi has picked up on an idea that agrees with his world-view. Because it agrees with his world-view, he doesn't stop to question whether the idea is backed up with facts. ...

I fail to see how the existence of Nazareth or of Jesus is an idea that agrees with Randi's world view. And Salm presents facts. Have you read and idependently evaluated his book?

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Randi was a hero of mine, for many years. ....

Why I am skeptical of that statement? :constern01:

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Originally Posted by Toto

If I thought it important whether Nazareth existed or not in the 1st century, I might try to do my own research. Since I don't, I'll reserve judgment.

When do you actually give a judgement, then? Even as a probability? What is stopping you from saying "there probably was a Nazareth around the time Jesus supposedly lived"?

I repeat, I feel no need to stake a position on this question.

Switch89 · 03-07-2009, 11:51 AM

Gakusei Don, I don't think what you're saying is fair. How do you know that Randi hasn't surveyed the facts for himself? Randi mentioned having read some peer-reviewed criticisms of Salm in his video, so evidently he has made at least some effort to look at the facts.

aa5874 · 03-07-2009, 02:12 PM

I think Randi is looking for the CITY of Nazareth, not a place called Nazareth, but a CITY.

Mt 2:23 -

Quote:

And he came and dwelt in a CITY called Nazareth...... that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

Lu 1:26 -
And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a CITY of Galilee, named Nazareth....

Lu 2:4 -
And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the CITY of Nazareth,....... i

Lu 2:39 -
And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own CITY Nazareth.

Now, who can tell me when the CITY called Nazareth was ever located by archaeologists?

And then tell me when Jesus of the NT actually lived in that CITY.

GakuseiDon · 03-07-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

I fail to see how the existence of Nazareth or of Jesus is an idea that agrees with Randi's world view. And Salm presents facts. Have you read and idependently evaluated his book?

No. Has anyone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

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Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

Randi was a hero of mine, for many years. ....

Why I am skeptical of that statement? :constern01:

Oh yes, I'm just pretending. It is part of my Master Plan... Bwahahahahaha!!! (raises little finger to mouth).

Randi has always been a hero of mine. Anyone who fights "against the grain" has my admiration. And yes, that even includes Earl Doherty.

Randi has fought for years exposing flim-flam artists and supposed "miracle healing" preachers, and it has made him more enemies than friends. If he is starting to tread off the path of skepticism, then he needs to be told.

Anyway, Randi responded to my email! He's asked for more details, so I've sent them to him.

GakuseiDon · 03-07-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switch89

Gakusei Don, I don't think what you're saying is fair. How do you know that Randi hasn't surveyed the facts for himself? Randi mentioned having read some peer-reviewed criticisms of Salm in his video, so evidently he has made at least some effort to look at the facts.

I listened through the clip again, but couldn't hear where he said he'd read some peer-reviewed criticisms of Salm. Where does he say that?

Switch89 · 03-07-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switch89

Gakusei Don, I don't think what you're saying is fair. How do you know that Randi hasn't surveyed the facts for himself? Randi mentioned having read some peer-reviewed criticisms of Salm in his video, so evidently he has made at least some effort to look at the facts.

I listened through the clip again, but couldn't hear where he said he'd read some peer-reviewed criticisms of Salm. Where does he say that?

They are in the BULLETIN OF THE ANGLO-ISRAEL ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOCIETY. Found here:
http://www.aias.org.uk/aias_bulletin26.htm

In fact, Salm authored a response in this journal, so he is peer-reviewed now.

Switch89 · 03-07-2009, 03:21 PM

By the way GD, what evidence is there that Nazareth existed in Jesus' time?

Toto · 03-07-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

...

Anyway, Randi responded to my email! He's asked for more details, so I've sent them to him.

What details, since you haven't read the book?

And don't you think that there is something more important than going "against the grain?" And how do you sqare this with your association with Christianity or some of its worst practicioners such as JP Holding?

Cigarette companies sell their product to teen agers as part of "rebellion" against the rules. Other clever manipulators cast themselves as the rebels against authority, even when they are upholding authority. At some point, you have to actually evaluate the evidence and decide if the consensus might actually be right - or not.

GakuseiDon · 03-07-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switch89

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

I listened through the clip again, but couldn't hear where he said he'd read some peer-reviewed criticisms of Salm. Where does he say that?

They are in the BULLETIN OF THE ANGLO-ISRAEL ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOCIETY. Found here:
http://www.aias.org.uk/aias_bulletin26.htm

In fact, Salm authored a response in this journal, so he is peer-reviewed now.

Writing a response doesn't make you peer-reviewed, I'm afraid. Does Randi say that he actually checked into the claims of Salm? I really hope that this is so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switch89

By the way GD, what evidence is there that Nazareth existed in Jesus' time?

Not a lot, from what I understand. Carrier gives the sources he looked at in the link I gave earlier.

GakuseiDon · 03-07-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

...

Anyway, Randi responded to my email! He's asked for more details, so I've sent them to him.

What details, since you haven't read the book?

I sent him Carrier's comments from a number of sources.

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Originally Posted by Toto

And don't you think that there is something more important than going "against the grain?"

"More important"? :huh: Seriously, Toto, what is the point of this question? All I said was "anyone who fights "against the grain" has my admiration." And that is true.

What on earth do you think I was saying?

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Originally Posted by Toto

And how do you sqare this with your association with Christianity or some of its worst practicioners such as JP Holding?

It has absolutely nothing to do with either AFAICS.

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Originally Posted by Toto

Cigarette companies sell their product to teen agers as part of "rebellion" against the rules. Other clever manipulators cast themselves as the rebels against authority, even when they are upholding authority. At some point, you have to actually evaluate the evidence and decide if the consensus might actually be right - or not.

Yeah, well, as that teenager rebel James Dean said in the movie "Rebel without a Consensus": "I feel no need to stake a position on this question".

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03-07-2009, 11:51 AM	#12
Switch89 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Montgomery, AL Posts: 453	Gakusei Don, I don't think what you're saying is fair. How do you know that Randi hasn't surveyed the facts for himself? Randi mentioned having read some peer-reviewed criticisms of Salm in his video, so evidently he has made at least some effort to look at the facts.

03-07-2009, 03:21 PM	#17
Switch89 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Montgomery, AL Posts: 453	By the way GD, what evidence is there that Nazareth existed in Jesus' time?

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