Phlox Pyros

If you would like to check their transcription against the actual manuscript, there is actually a great viewer available...too bad I can't figure out how to download the images (i suppose that was the intent...).

Zoomable document viewer (cool! will overlay their transcription as well as their translation)

Now to look for some Coptic websites to help out.

Peter Kirby

I finally broke the code on Crum's dictionary. It is alphabetical, but vowels are ignored. This will make it easier to find words. :grin:

regards,
Peter Kirby

Phlox Pyros

For those without textbooks...

A course in Coptic
Coptic Lessons
Coptic Resources (including a short Sahidic vocab)

The Coptic Language (aimed at kids but audio helps with pronunciation of letters)

Coptic Unicode (does it work here? .... εϯϩη ....)

Phlox Pyros

Works referenced by Peter and Chris (I believe...)

Thomas Lambdin's Introduction to Sahidic Coptic

Crum's Coptic Dictionary

Chris Weimer

What the hell! Where were those 6 used books when I was looking for it! Amazon had none, and finally a new one came through on Eisenbrauns.

River

I have a feeling the Gospel of Judas might give independent support for this
statement:

4:157
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

4:158
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

However, I guess we have to wait and see-River

Peter Kirby

Well, I've been working on the first line, and I'm still completely stuck on one word (which Meyer et al. translates 'before he celebrated'). Here are the words I've worked out, taken literally.

(1) The word
(2) secret
(3) of the denial
(4) belonging to
(5) Jesus
(6) said
(7) with
(8) Judas
(9) Iscariot
(10) during
(11) the eight
(12) days
(13) from the time of
(14) forward
(15) the three
(16) days
(17) ???
(18) Passover.

This leaves me with a few questions about the incipit, socalled:

Is it indeed denial, apophasis, which is spoken about, or is it 'revelation' as translated by the scholars?

Is it the denial of Jesus or the secret word of Jesus? What's the relation of 'Jesus' to the preceding terms? (The word NTA is significant here, as is the consideration that it is almost completely conjectural.)

Related to the previous questions, is it talking about the word Jesus spoke to Judas about his denial, or is it a self-reference to the hidden account presented herein that leads up to the denial?

About the time markers...are the eight days before or after the three days, or do they overlap (are the three days within the eight somehow)? For example, this could conceivably refer to the eight days of appearances of Jesus after the 'three' days he was dead, or it could refer to the eight days of holy week concluded by the three days of Friday to Sunday. I'm pretty sure that the three days refers to the famous three days (known as Good Friday, Holy Saturday, and Easter Sunday liturgically--note that the word for 'Passover', Pascha, in Greek and Coptic is also 'Easter'). The eight days could be Palm Sunday to Easter Sunday, or they could possibly be Easter Sunday to the day Jesus appeared in the room with Thomas.

It might be best to put a full stop after 'The Secret Account of the Denial'. Could this work? (You might have to drop NTA from the reconstruction or do something else with it.)

If someone can explain the word before Pascha for me, it would be appreciated.

regards,
Peter Kirby

S.C.Carlson

This is a Coptic loanword from Greek, but there are two Greek words spelled αποφασις (apophasis). One is from αποφημι (apophemi "I deny" = apo "from" + phemi "I say") meaning denial; the other is from αποφαινω (apophaino "I declare" < apo + phaino "I show"), with a meaning of a "(legal) sentence," "declared statement," or "oracle."

Apparently, the translator(s) chose the second meaning.

Stephen

Peter Kirby

Now that I think about it, I'm inclined to agree with the translators. It was Peter, not Judas, who denied Jesus. Doh!

I was toying with the idea of "the account which is hidden and denied" but I think that would require dropping the definite article before the word for denial.

regards,
Peter Kirby

Roger Pearse

I didn't see any images -- were they hidden somewhere?

Remember that the GoJ is only 26 pages out of 66 in the codex in which it is found.

I agree.

Roger Pearse