tanya

Nota bene: Plato is referenced, and the name of his composition, Timaeus, included in Justin's text. Justin Martyr is able to identify specific titles, including the author's name.

Here is another example, an extract of Justin's text, quoting Isaiah 52:5 (but, here, Justin omits the precise reference within Isaiah, simply mentioning his name, perhaps assuming that his readers would have known the precise passage, without enumeration, or, more likely, no such system of chapter and verse enumeration had yet been developed in the middle of the second century, CE.)

Now, I am not asking for a link to one of the three extant Greek texts of Justin Martyr, showing that he wrote THE Memoirs of the Apostles. I simply seek a link showing that he wrote, or read, something with the words: Memoirs of the Apostles, contained in the title, the way he cites Plato's Timaeus, or Isaiah.

Here is my very rough, approximate, undoubtedly, error riddled translation, to be taken with a tablespoon full of salt:

"...they are called prophets.... informed by the Holy Ghost, their writings still exist..."

Shesh, please feel free to correct my astonishingly mediocre translation.

Here, in chapter 29 of Dialogue with Trypho, Justin confirms my suspicions: his biblical references are derived from the Hebrew sacred texts, not some kind of "Memoirs of the Apostles".

Finally, here is a quote from chapter 51, which is explicitly found in Matthew 11:15, whether Justin wrote it first, then Matthew copied it, or vice versa, how do we know?

Amen

Duvduv

The similarity of any given saying or proverb carries no evidence of where it came from since proverbs can be used orally all over.

If one found the adage "It takes one to know one" in one book, and it is known to be in another book, this is no evidence at all that such a proverb was taken from the other book.

Again, it is worth emphasizing that the whole discussion about the Memoirs of the Apostles cannot ignore the fact that "Justin" does not identify a single source of a single proverb or statement that comprise his Memoirs, nor does he distinguish among any differing versions of any particular event found in the gospels if he knew them. They are simply assorted proverbs and stories showing no differences or contradictions.

Sheshbazzar

Do you have a reading problem?
Please SHOW WHERE it is in this paragraph;
that it states anything at all about 'the 1st century or before.

You are reading things into this paragraph, that are simply NOT THERE.


.

Sheshbazzar

WE do not have that name. You know that, I know that, and just about everyone here knows that.
However, that we do not know the -name(s)- of these writers is not any evidence that these unknown -by name- writers of the 'Memoirs of the Apostles', and 'The Acts of Pilate' did not in fact exist, and write religious works before Justin wrote.

But as you have such a huge cob up your ass about the 1st century, I'll rephrase the statement for your pleasure to;

...There were lots of 'unknown characters' who wrote before Justin Martyr. These unknown characters are what supplied Justin with that 'christian' material that he writes so much about...

aa5874

Again, this is an excerpt of your own post.

1. There lots of UNKNOWN 'characters' in the 1st century and before.

2. These UNKNOWN characters are what supplied Justin with the 'Christian' material that he writes so much about.

Please NAME the UNKNOWN characters.

Sheshbazzar

Tanya. You are off on your own tangent, and are free to write whatever it is you feel you are impelled to write.
But I am not about to get deeply involved in this thread, or in any other, wrangling over fine details of Greek linguistics.

I suggest that if you wish to pursue this matter of the 'Memoirs' in depth, that you open a thread that is specifically dedicated to the subject.
There you will be able to attract the attention of those who are deeply into, and most proficient in the reading of and parsing of Greek writings, something in which I claim no great expertise, as to me, and to my Hebrew fathers before me, learning the Greek language, or knowingly embracing Hellenism, is akin to the gobbling down of horse flesh and swine meat, washed down with swine slop. So I will not be going there.


ששבצר העברי

Sheshbazzar

Which is obviously NOT THE PARAGRAPH THAT YOU CITED IN POST #260, nor that same paragraph I reposted and questioned you regarding in post #263.

Not at all nice of you to omit the CONTEXT aa, so I am taking the liberty of re-suppling that context which you have chosen to leave off.

Please read post #264


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aa5874

You claimed that there were 1st century sources for the development of Christianity.

Examine an Excerpt from post #249.

Why can't you admit to own written statements??

Please, TELL us of the 'Factual accounts' that were destroyed??

What are the real facts of the development of 1st century Christianity??

DCHindley

Justin, Dialogue ch 100: … we find it recorded in the memoirs of His apostles that He is the Son of God …

καὶ	υἱὸν	θεοῦ	γεγραμμένον	αὐτὸν
and	son	of God	reported	him (i.e., Christ)

ἐν	τοῖς	ἀπομνημονεύμασι	τῶν	ἀποστόλων	αὐτοῦ
in	the	memoirs	of the	Apostles	of him

Justin, 1st Apology 106: For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, ...

οἱ	γὰρ	ἀπόστολοι	ἐν	τοῖς	γενομένοις	ὑπ'	αὐτῶν
the	for	apostles	in	the	composed	by (authority)	of them

ἀπομνημονεύμασιν,	ἃ	καλεῖται	εὐαγγέλια
memoirs	which	are called	gospels

DCH

Sheshbazzar

It ought to be apparent to other readers here that you are selectively quoting.

Go back and carefully read my post #259
Did you read, and UNDERSTAND this.
Why is it that are you ignoring and making no comments on paragraphs such as this one aa?

Moreover it was not only 'unknown characters' of the 1st century that contributed to the 'Jesus' story that was accepted as history by Justin.

You well know that Josephus (who's 1st century writings are well known) wrote about a 'Jesus' who was stripped and flayed, but did not resist, speak up, or cry out.
(a 'Jesus' story straight from the 1st century. written by a known source)

And how about those three Jews whom were crucified, that Josephus tells us about, of one of whom lived on, while the others died.
(a 'crucifixion' story straight from the 1st century written by a known source.)

1st century Amazing coincidences no?