Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Newton's Cat · 06-10-2006, 04:23 PM

I'm curious as to what this is all about - and could there be some "secret" info here?

It seems to refer to the Greek custom of using the inside of a loaf of bread (which is damp) to clean one's hands at the meal-table. These crumbs are then thrown under the table for the dogs to eat. The crumbs are called, in Greek, MAGDALIA, "dog's meat". A knowledgeable reader would have known this. (In the text psichion, "crumbs" is used rather than magdalia).

Maybe the Greek woman's name was Mary?

This little story, seemingly unconnected with anything else, describes Jesus being alone with a woman.

24 And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid.

25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:

26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.

29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.

30 And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.

k_smith123 · 06-12-2006, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newton's Cat

I'm curious as to what this is all about - and could there be some "secret" info here?

It seems to refer to the Greek custom of using the inside of a loaf of bread (which is damp) to clean one's hands at the meal-table. These crumbs are then thrown under the table for the dogs to eat. The crumbs are called, in Greek, MAGDALIA, "dog's meat". A knowledgeable reader would have known this. (In the text psichion, "crumbs" is used rather than magdalia).

Maybe the Greek woman's name was Mary?

I believe there is indeed a secret here and support for this idea is found in Plato's Cratylus. Near the beginning of Cratylus Plato had the character Hermogenes introduce the issue of “correctness” by explaining:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plato

HERMOGENES: I should explain to you, Socrates, that our friend Cratylus has been arguing about names; he says that they are natural and not conventional; not a portion of the human voice which men agree to use; but that there is a truth or correctness in them, which is the same for Hellenes as for barbarians. Whereupon I ask him, whether his own name of Cratylus is a true name or not, and he answers 'Yes.' And Socrates? 'Yes.' Then every man's name, as I tell him, is that which he is called. To this he replies--'If all the world were to call you Hermogenes, that would not be your name.' And when I am anxious to have a further explanation he is ironical and mysterious, and seems to imply that he has a notion of his own about the matter, if he would only tell, and could entirely convince me, if he chose to be intelligible.

As the discussion continues Socrates provides further insights into the issue when he remarks:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plato

"…a king will often be the son of a king, the good son or the noble son of a good or noble sire; and similarly the offspring of every kind, in the regular course of nature, is like the parent, and therefore has the same name. Yet the syllables may be disguised until they appear different to the ignorant person, and he may not recognize them, although they are the same, just as any one of us would not recognize the same drugs under different disguises of colour and smell, although to the physician, who regards the power of them, they are the same, and he is not put out by the addition; and in like manner the etymologist is not put out by the addition or transposition or subtraction of a letter or two, or indeed by the change of all the letters, for this need not interfere with the meaning. As was just now said, the names of Hector and Astyanax have only one letter alike, which is tau, and yet they have the same meaning. And how little in common with the letters of their names has Archepolis (ruler of the city)--and yet the meaning is the same. And there are many other names which just mean 'king.' Again, there are several names for a general, as, for example, Agis (leader) and Polemarchus (chief in war) and Eupolemus (good warrior); and others which denote a physician, as Iatrocles (famous healer) and Acesimbrotus (curer of mortals); and there are many others which might be cited, differing in their syllables and letters, but having the same meaning." (Italics added)

If we take this idea seriously then it is possible to find many examples in the Gospel accounts similar to the one above. For example we are told that Christ rode into Jerusalem on a "donkey", but in Hebrew a "donkey" is expressed as "'athown" and thus it appears that Christ was associated with Athens in some way. Then when we are told that Christ rode a "colt" (G.polos) a link to Paul is suggested.

Or we can see:

Quote:

Matt. 7:13 "...broad (platus) is the road that leads to destruction..."

I have found enough of these connections to conclude that the entire Bible is allegory and that many of the metaphors are based on phonetic similarities with other words. Names (H. shem) are the "oil" (H. shemen) used to "anoint" or hide true meanings.

Of course much of this seems meaningless until the correct context is established through multiple interpretations.

dongiovanni1976x · 06-13-2006, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_smith123

I believe there is indeed a secret here and support for this idea is found in Plato's Cratylus...Of course much of this seems meaningless until the correct context is established through multiple interpretations.

I was very interested in your observations and comments but I got lost at the end. What kind of connection are you trying to suggest here?

06-10-2006, 04:23 PM	#1
Newton's Cat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,181	Mark 7,24-30 I'm curious as to what this is all about - and could there be some "secret" info here? It seems to refer to the Greek custom of using the inside of a loaf of bread (which is damp) to clean one's hands at the meal-table. These crumbs are then thrown under the table for the dogs to eat. The crumbs are called, in Greek, MAGDALIA, "dog's meat". A knowledgeable reader would have known this. (In the text psichion, "crumbs" is used rather than magdalia). Maybe the Greek woman's name was Mary? This little story, seemingly unconnected with anything else, describes Jesus being alone with a woman. 24 And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid. 25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet: 26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. 27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. 28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. 29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter. 30 And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.

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