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Old 06-03-2009, 07:40 AM   #11
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What does the "H" stand for?

I used to always hear my Dad say "Jesus H. Christ", I've used the term myself, but was wondering if any of you learned folk knew what the "H" stood for?
lol I think that's just some sort of joke.

But if I were to "translate" it, it might be ΙΗΣΟΥΣ Η ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ which would be (veeeery loosely) "Jesus the Christ". "H" is the feminine "the" in Greek. Though I'm not sure "christos" is a feminine word.

But I'm almost sure that this isn't where the "H" comes from.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:41 PM   #12
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I don't think the "H" is in any way considered sacred. I have heard someone opine that it stood for "Holy".
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:30 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Tristan Scott View Post
What does the "H" stand for?

I used to always hear my Dad say "Jesus H. Christ", I've used the term myself, but was wondering if any of you learned folk knew what the "H" stood for?
lol I think that's just some sort of joke.

But if I were to "translate" it, it might be ΙΗΣΟΥΣ Η ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ which would be (veeeery loosely) "Jesus the Christ". "H" is the feminine "the" in Greek. Though I'm not sure "christos" is a feminine word.

But I'm almost sure that this isn't where the "H" comes from.
Christos is not a feminine word, and Greek 'H' is the letter eta, not the English letter h.

But Jesus The Christ could be Iesous ho Xristos, with the h representing the rough breathing on the masculine article - which would give you an aitch.
:huh:
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:21 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by show_no_mercy View Post

lol I think that's just some sort of joke.

But if I were to "translate" it, it might be ΙΗΣΟΥΣ Η ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ which would be (veeeery loosely) "Jesus the Christ". "H" is the feminine "the" in Greek. Though I'm not sure "christos" is a feminine word.

But I'm almost sure that this isn't where the "H" comes from.
Christos is not a feminine word, and Greek 'H' is the letter eta, not the English letter h.

But Jesus The Christ could be Iesous ho Xristos, with the h representing the rough breathing on the masculine article - which would give you an aitch.
:huh:
I think you've nailed it. Iesous ho Xristos.

Another thing he used to say, my Dad. He was a devout catholic which probably explains his knowing about the ho Xristos thing, but he also used to say "Jesus Christ on a Crutch" and I never quite understood what the "crutch" reference was to.

Any ideas on that?
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:06 PM   #15
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Christ Jesus vs. Jesus Christ

Dyslexia?
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:23 PM   #16
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Over the years I've wondered the same thing, at least with reference to the letters of Paul. Why "Jesus Christ" sometimes, and "Christ Jesus" others?

As Toto noted, these two words are used or not used in different relationships in the various books of the Bible. See below for a handy table of the relative use in all books of the Bible.

There are some (usually Christian fundamentalists) who think there is some sort of divine doctrine being conveyed and try to divine the significance of it. These usually believe all the letters were written by Paul, and of course he was guided in what he wrote by God's spirit.

Most academic bible critics of the moderate or liberal persuasion think some of the letters are authentic and some are not. The former would reflect Paul's actual views while the latter were written later by pious imitators attempting to encourage co-believers of their own day using an icon of the past. The use of one phrase over the other would likely have a different significance if found in the "authentic" letters than if found in the "unauthentic" although there could be a certain amount of imitation going on there as well.

My personal opinion is that the Christ language was actually added to originally non-Christian letters, and if so then the different phrases may signify something about the theological beliefs of the editor or editors who added them. While I have worked out what I think is added to the letters of Paul, I have not yet tried to analyze how these two forms fit into my hypothesis.

DCH

The distribution, for those interested, is:

Book-JC-CJ

MAT-2-0
MAR-1-0
LUK-0-0
JOH-2-0
ACT-12-1
ROM-18-14
1CO-10-7
2CO-7-1
GAL-8-8
EPH-7-11
PHI-8-11
COL-1-4
1TH-5-2
2TH-9-0
1TI-3-11
2TI-1-12
TIT-3-1
PHM-2-3
HEB-3-0
JAM-2-0
1PE-9-0
2PE-7-0
1JN-6-0
2JN-2-0
3JN-0-0
JUD-5-0
REV-3-0

TOT-136-86


Quote:
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As someone who was raised heathen, I'm not sure what the difference is between these two entities. Intuitively, they seem like they should be the same but I've noticed that really creepy hardcore fundies tend to use the "Christ Jesus" formulation whereas more moderate Christians are more likely to use the "Jesus Christ" formulation. What is the deal? Is Hebrew (or Aramaic, or Greek, or whatever) like Chinese in that it is <family name> <individual name> so the more radical formulation is closer to what would have been said back-in-the-day (and so more 'fundamentalist') or is there something else at play here.
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:31 AM   #17
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My personal opinion is that the Christ language was actually added to originally non-Christian letters
When?
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:38 PM   #18
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Sometime in the last two decades of the 1st century or the first two decasdes of the 2nd century CE.

DCH


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Originally Posted by DCHindley View Post
My personal opinion is that the Christ language was actually added to originally non-Christian letters
When?
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:36 AM   #19
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But what about Lord Jesus Christ or Jesus or Christ by themselves?
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:46 AM   #20
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But what about Lord Jesus Christ or Jesus or Christ by themselves?
Could just be degrees of formality,
right?

daniel.
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