Goobla

I think the whole 'throw rocks at fags until they stop living' thing was one of the first major doubts that turned me into a more liberal bare-bones theology Christian, eventually leading to deconversion. I can see how some can remain Christian however, as it's not something that can completely deconvert you on it's own.

You have to keep on trimming at the dogma until nothing's left, and some people have a lot invested in that dogma.

Barefoot Bree

Enjoying your oatmeal, Scotty?

Nyet. Liberal Christians such as my father believe the bible to be written-down oral history of the beginnings of their religious tradition, written by men, containing guidelines for living, and go to church to renew their spirit, their sense of fellowship, and their dedication to the ideals of love, compassion, faith, hope, peace, and charity.

Godless Wonder

I'm pretty sure the Bible says that about everyone not just/especially certain people. If you believe something is true, not liking it generally doesn't make it any less believable. Whether you like something or not generally has nothing to do with whether or not it is true, and that goes for pretty much every kind of belief, not just religious kinds. However, I can see where being especially singled out by the Bible and by Christians would push one to try to examine the Bible with a mind towards trying to see if it really is true rather than just accepting it all on faith. But Christianity pushes back pretty hard with edicts not to look too closely, and explicit instructions not to trust one's own mind if it wants to try to disagree with The Big Bad Book.

Epictetus

I've never understood the angst fundies have about gay people. First of all, can it unequivocally be demonstrated that the NT is firmly against homosexuality? There are some references in Paul's epistles but the Greek is somewhat ambiguous as I recall; i.e. fornication, etc. Maybe I've forgotten the more cogent passages.

Additionally, it could be argued that anti-homosexuality was merely a cultural bias that 1st century Christians held, similar to their opinion of women, slavery, covering your head in worship, eat meat, being circumcised and a host of other "cultural" proscriptions that mean NOTHING today. These passages indicate Paul's preference for one cultural expression over another; that is all.

Third, sexual practices are ENTIRELY cultural. Some cultures encourage sex outside of marriage, polygamy, polyandry, etc. Do fundies disapprove of certain heterosexual practices; i.e. oral sex? If so, where do they find this in the NT? The Greeks and Romans practiced all kinds of aberrant sexual activities which we would not be comfortable with. But that doesn't make it wrong. Just different.

WCH

@Epi
I discussed that in my post above, actually... there's one verse that lists "homosexual offenders" among the list of people who won't get into heaven (liars, fornicators, etc), but the Greek actually says something more along the lines of "those who masturbate with men," and seems to be refering to male prostitutes, although, to be honest, we aren't entirely sure. Could be either. Since that's basically the only verse in the NT that talks about it (aside from Jesus saying that not a stroke of the pen is to be removed from the Law before the world comes to an end), it's far from unequivocal.

Plastic Jesus

So all Christians have to be Paulians?

I never heard that rule...

WCH

Well, all people who believe that Canonization was a divinely inspired process do... which isn't all Christians, of course.

Valdemar

Then they're not true Christians*


I think Magus would have a thing or three to say about that!



*Yes, I know all about the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. But we're not talking about puddin' here, folks. We're talking about anal sex!*

*Yes, I know. Women can be gay, too, and not engage in anal sex.

MonCapitan2002

Please do not compare Christianity to Star Trek. Comparing the two is an insult to Star Trek. I would prefer if you didn't sully my favorite television series by comparing it to a schizophrenic religion.

Columbus

Jesus Metropolitan Community Church is a rather large denomination that was founded specifically to minister to the gay community, but my guess looking around at a few services about 20% of attendees were straight. And that is in Indianapolis.

I go to church occasionally, here in a small town where I am really out. I mean really out. The local paper calls me whenever they want to quote a conservative gay person by name. I never have any problem.
I just got home from a meeting at the local Catholic church. I'm on one of their peace and justice sub-committees. While I'm sure that there are people there who have trouble with a gay agnostic in their midst they keep their opinions to themselves. While I believe very much in what we do, I also like the fact that I can put a face on "those people" in a way that is positive.

There really are lot's of Christians out there who take Jesus' ethic more seriously than a bunch of "Thou shalt not"s.

Peace,
Tom