Freethought & Rationalism Archive

bacht · 10-06-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Eusebius asserts heretics before Constantine, however we have no evidence about anything whatseoever christian prior to Constantine. We certainly know that both Arius of Alexandria and Porphyry of Tyre were considered heretics in the time of Eusebius. What we dont know, is that anyone who called Constantine's new testament a fiction was regarded as a heretic.

So who wrote the texts mentioned by Eusebius, and when were they written? Eusebius would have us believe they were written during the period prior to Constantine, but IMO all the new testament apochryphal literature was written by greek academics who had been prohibiited use and service of the vast and extant temple services, which Constantine had prohibited c.324 CE by edict which was enforced. We have thus a large population of ascetic greek speaking academic priests, ascetics, with no homes. They struck back with the pen. Satire against Constantine's canon.

Now I see, there were people ready and willing to write alternative literature.

What about the existence of Christian worshippers, either orthodox or not? Were there followers of John the Baptist, or Ebionites, Marcionists etc who left some evidence? Were the catacombs in Rome unrelated to Christian activity, either Catholic or otherwise?

WishboneDawn · 10-06-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

I would ask that people not rush in and correct the various crass errors of fact and judgement in MountainMan's post. He's hoping that we'll do his reference checking for him, after which he'll just issue a new version with the same theme but the obvious errors gone. Don't do it.

His argument-by-repitition isn't winning you over?

mountainman · 10-06-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Eusebius asserts heretics before Constantine, however we have no evidence about anything whatseoever christian prior to Constantine. We certainly know that both Arius of Alexandria and Porphyry of Tyre were considered heretics in the time of Eusebius. What we dont know, is that anyone who called Constantine's new testament a fiction was regarded as a heretic.

So who wrote the texts mentioned by Eusebius, and when were they written? Eusebius would have us believe they were written during the period prior to Constantine, but IMO all the new testament apochryphal literature was written by greek academics who had been prohibiited use and service of the vast and extant temple services, which Constantine had prohibited c.324 CE by edict which was enforced. We have thus a large population of ascetic greek speaking academic priests, ascetics, with no homes. They struck back with the pen. Satire against Constantine's canon.

Now I see, there were people ready and willing to write alternative literature.

Yes, you can certainly use the word alternative here. However when the alternative literature is directed against the ruling political party, and if the ruling political party is highly authoritarian (eg: military supremacist) then that literature is deemed to be seditious. The apochrypha IMO were thus treated as seditious literature against christianity during the period of the fourth century.

Quote:

What about the existence of Christian worshippers, either orthodox or not? Were there followers of John the Baptist, or Ebionites, Marcionists etc who left some evidence? Were the catacombs in Rome unrelated to Christian activity, either Catholic or otherwise?

NO. None of the above IMO.

You see, when we examine the available evidence outside of Eusebius we find that it is exceedingly tenuous, and in a great state of poverty. The catacombs of Rome have been the subject of christian conjecture for centuries, but IMO christianity was an emperor cult invented out of thre whole cloth by Constantine c.312 - 324 CE for the purpose of authoritarian unity in the empire - he was after all the Pontifex Maximus.

Best wishes,

Pete

Roger Pearse · 10-07-2008, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WishboneDawn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

I would ask that people not rush in and correct the various crass errors of fact and judgement in MountainMan's post. He's hoping that we'll do his reference checking for him, after which he'll just issue a new version with the same theme but the obvious errors gone. Don't do it.

His argument-by-repitition isn't winning you over?

Curiously, no.

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