Chili

Are you sure Mark was not hearing voices himself and knew exactly what to write to remove Judaism from his set so that Luke could fill the potholes that Mark created for him, just so he could?

And sure, Mark may have been first, but Mark had a story to tell in the unspoken word already by placing John in the desert wearing a camelhair coat eating grasshoppers, all day long, I suppose, while in fact I think that they were eating him, all day long, I am sure, to give us the 'outside' talk that he used to lead his reader astray.

The ancients called this paralogism that was used for 'seducing' with words that was known as 'outside talk' (para-logism) by the speaker wherein his secret thoughts are concealed to lead his reader astray, as consumer, and maybe even a 'heavy-duty light weight consumer' now digesting those same hoppers as second hand to him.

So now until you tell me why this John was dressed in a camelhair coat eating hoppers by the sworm in the desert, I hold him to be a seducer with words, and with purpose, of course.

So the real question becomes: Who put him there first?

Toto

This thread is 1: too long 2: repetitious or veering off topic.

Shall it be closed? How long should it go on? Can we agree that 1000 posts is the limit?

aa5874

Toto, there is no rule on this forum that limits posts. Why are you doing this??

This is most amazing.

TedM

One thing that perhaps should be considered is that this thread provides a convenient focal point for aa to voice his views, which possibly can serve to free up other threads from being overloaded with similar posts.

aa5874

My argument is that the Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century and I will show that the Pauline writings were UNKNOWN by Marcion based on existing evidence and written statements from sources of antiquity.

The NT Canon contains 27 books and 13 of them are under the name of Paul so the Pauline writings are almost 50% of the NT.

In the Canon, there is ONLY one gMark, either the short or Long version.

Now, if all the writings under the name of Paul were ripped from the Canon and burned we would have NO idea what was written in them.

No author of the NT copied a single verse word-for-word from the Pauline teachings--from the Epistle to the Romans--to the Epistle to Philemon.

There is NO trace at all of the Pauline Revealed Gospel from the Resurrected Jesus in any of the remaining books of the NT Canon.

The Pauline writings are 13 books with a total of over 2000 verses.

Now, there is ONLY one gMark in any NT Canon and if we were to RIP it out and have it burned what would be result??

Would there be any books of the Canon that would still have word-for-word verses that was found in gMark??

Even if gMark itself was NOT in the Canon the author of gMatthew would have COPIED OVER 600 verses from gMark--virtually the Entire gMark is gMatthew.

gMatthew is virtually a carbon copy of gMark with the additional birth story, the Sermon of the mount and a post-resurrection visit.

Not only does gMatthew reflect the gMark story but the author of gLuke also Copied over 300 verses from gMark and some word-for-word.

Essentially, if the NT Canon did NOT include gMark and the Pauline writings ONLY the Pauline Revealed Gospel from the Resurrected Jesus would be Lost.

The Pauline Revealed Gospel from the Resurrected Jesus had NO influence whatsoever on the authors of the NT.

Not even the author of Revelation used any verse or passage from the Pauline Revealed Gospel.

The teachings of the Non-Pauline Jesus of the NT is NOT the same with the Pauline Revealed Gospel.

No other author of the Canon claimed that without the resurrection that there would be NO Remission of Sins for mankind.

Romans 4:25 NIV1 Corinthians 15:17 NIV When, we examine writings from Justin Martyr, the very same thing happens.

Justin Martyr up to the mid 2nd century wrote NOTHING of the Pauline Revealed Gospel--justification and remission of sins by the resurrection--NOTHING.

Justin Martyr was a contemporary of Marcion.

1.Justin Martyr wrote about the teachings of Marcion.

2. Justin wrote NOTHING of the teachings of Paul.

3. The authors of the NT Canon wrote NOTHING of the teachings of Paul.

How then does Tertullian claim Marcion mutilated ALL the Pauline writings when the supposed EARLIER authors of the very NT knew NOTHING of them??

1. The author of the short gMark should have been Before Marcion and used Nothing from the Pauline revealed teachings.

2. The author of the Long gMark should been before Marcion and used Nothing from the Pauline revealed teachings.

3. The author of gMatthew should have been Before Marcion and used Nothing from the Pauline revealed teachings.

4. The author of gLuke should have been Before Marcion and used Nothing from the Pauline revealed teachings.

5. The author of Revelation should have been Before Marcion and used Nothing from the Pauline revealed teachings.

6. The author of Acts should have been before Marcion and used Nothing from the Pauline revealed teachings.

It is clear that the Pauline teachings were completely UNKNOWN up to the time of the Jesus stories and the writings of Justin Martyr and were NOT already composed and NOT used in the Churches.

First Apology LXVII The Five books "Against Marcion" attributed to Tertullian are historically bogus and is NOT supported at all by the very Canon of the Church.

aa5874

You have no idea of the difference between Belief and an Argument.

In effect, that Explains why you are interested in Angel stories.

You do not see angels today but cannot accept that they never did exist.

Please, remember, in the world of Myth, there are Evil Angels that are Deceivers--Never forget about the Devil and his Angels.


Revelation 12:9 NIV
Matthew 25:41 NIV Please, be careful with angels they may be of the Devil. It is in the Bible, the handbook of Myth.

Sheshbazzar

According to the teachings of the Elders in my congregation, "Jesus" is the 'strong delusion', the deliberately planted deceiving lie, and is that lying anti-messiah.
(the 'anti-christ' is none other than 'Jesus Christ' his lying mythical self, The Great Deceiver of the whole earth.).
And it is the Christian preachers that are the very Angels of Darkness and evil that are destined to be cast into the lake of fire along with their snake-on-a-stick Nehushtan brass Jebus idol that they have so long served, lied, and murdered for.

Chili

You got that right as Mark is full of them.

Chili

You do your work very well, but you miss [all] the points made in the NT.

Mark is Matthew with Judaism removed, that I called potholes or vacuums that Luke changed in such a way that transformed the event into a comedy instead of the tragedy that Matthew was.

Nobody needs Mark because the only purpose of religion is to get back to Eden again that Mark knowns nothing about.

Mark is just the naked truth that the outsider can see, and to note here is that 'back to Galilee' equals hell on earth while Luke spoonfeeds us the details how to get to heaven instead. Mark would not know the difference here with religion removed. No problem. Paul was the master shepherd as first Pope and he is seated at the faith of Peter the petros, why not, and Paul was the Christ and knew the story from the inside himself.And you can rip all you want but lets not forget that they created the greatest civilization on earth with all the BS they handed to you, simply because they do not want you to eat grashoppers all day.

Mark's Jesus (James was it?) went to hell remember? so we would better off without Mark except for the fact that the lion must nurse the lamb. So Mark is the agent they needed to keep the fire going on earth that is needed to purify gold, but nevertheless, Mark himself is flat as a pancake and would never know that heaven is just around corner for those who are feeding on him.There is no remision of sins in the universal that Matthew was dreaming about and hence material Mark did not know about. Instead 'the Romans' qoute you cited deals only with OT sins that are empty and void in the NT, or it would not be an NT in force. Remember here that the concept sin is also an illusion but is needed to convict the sinner as such.

I like your Sunday bit to say that the everlasting light has arrived which is the Seventh day on which evening never followed in Gen 2:1, where so then the first creation finds its material end 'as real' in the world that we live. IOW heaven on earth, and hell came crashing down with it.

Most pityable is that Sunday still is the first day of the week on our calendar today, while in fact the seventh day had arrived and Sunday should be the seventh day ndeed, . . . and that alone tells me that the so called Christians are still waiting for better days ahead, but not until after the die and get burried, to be sure.

aa5874

In my argument that the Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century there is one extremely significant fact that has been established.

There is NO recovered dated Jesus story, NO story about the disciples and No story about Paul from the 1st century and before c 70 CE. All recovered dated Jesus stories manuscripts are dated to the 2nd century and later.

My argument FAILS if a Recovered DATED manuscripts from the 1st century is found.

My argument CANNOT FAIL --NO dated Jesus story manuscipt is from the 1st century and before c 70 CE.

In effect, my argument is based on a Solid foundation.

I have also established that the character called Jesus could NOT have lived as described in the Canon.

Jesus was the Son of a God, the Creator God, born of a Ghost and a Virgin that walked on water, transfigured, resurrected and ascended in a cloud.

This description of Jesus was Published in the Roman Empire and was accepted as history by those who worshiped Mythological entities as real figures of history.

People of antiquity accepted Sons of Gods, Holy Ghosts and Satan as a figures of history.

It is well established in gMark that the Jesus story is total fiction from baptism to the resurrection.

In one of the last post I demonstrated that if gMark and ALL the Pauline writings were Ripped from the Canon and burned we would have NO idea of the Pauline revealed Gospel from the resurrected Jesus but we would still have almost 100% of the teachings of the Markan Jesus--

The author of gMatthew used over 600 verses and the author of gLuke used over 300 of gMark but NOT a verse from the Pauline writer--ZERO.

The Jesus story was KNOWN before the Pauline writings.

Now, let us look at gMark and the Pauline writings from another perspective.

Again, Rip gMark and ALL the Pauline writings from an Existing Canon.

Now Assemble a NEW CANON with Only gMark and all the Pauline writings.

Would the Pauline letters to Churches come before gMark??

gMark Ends at the Resurrection---the Pauline Revealed Gospel BEGAN AFTER the Resurrection of Jesus.

The teachings of the Markan Jesus in Galilee BEFORE the cucifixion and resurrection chronologically PRECEDES the teachings of the Pauline Resurrected Jesus.

The Pauline Revealed Gospel can ONLY Begin AFTER the Resurrection.

The Pauline writer claimed he was a persecutor of those who were believers of the Jesus story.

gMark is the earliest book of the Entire Canon and it was composed AFTER the 1st century.