Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Blackcat · 10-25-2005, 08:06 AM

Numerology, where letter-to-number mappings have been arbitrarily decided, is bullshit.

Quote:

~ y h l a a r b t y v a r b
40 10 5 30 1 1 200 2 400 10 300 1 200 2

Why were these particular values chosen for each letter? What's wrong with using the first <n> integers? Why do we see 200,300 and 400? Are there 400 individual letters in that alphabet? Which letter does 374 represent?

Looks like someone chose that particular set of numbers so that their bullshit calculation gave the right answer.

BioBeing · 10-25-2005, 08:34 AM

Pmarra - instead of just copying stuff from your web site and pasting it here, why not take the time to actually address the questions being asked of you?

Pmarra · 10-25-2005, 08:53 AM

I have simply done what you have asked

many of you don't have time to visit my site

Blackcat · 10-25-2005, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pmarra

I have simply done what you have asked

many of you don't have time to visit my site

I did visit your site, which is why I asked you:

Quote:

Why were these particular values chosen for each letter? What's wrong with using the first <n> integers? Why do we see 200,300 and 400? Are there 400 individual letters in that alphabet? Which letter does 374 represent?

Jack the Bodiless · 10-25-2005, 09:25 AM

Pmarra:

No, you haven't addressed the fact that 3.141554... is NOT Pi.

Furthermore, you don't justify your chopping-up of "Elohim" to get three triangular numbers, you don't calculate the odds against some OTHER "miraculous" pattern appearing instead (three prime numbers, the squares of four consecutive integers, or whatever)... and so on.

This is nonsense.

And why should anyone have a "proper humble approach" to the Bible in the first place? It's just an old book, packed with stories that we now know to be (in many cases) not factual.

Have you tried this sort of "analysis" with the Koran, or the Rig Veda, or Hubbard's "Dianetics", or the Harry Potter books? If not, why not?

Pmarra · 10-25-2005, 09:37 AM

Every letter of almost any alphabet in the world can be linked to numerical values, starting from units and ending with tens and hundreds. In ancient times this was a very common method for referring to quantities; for example, let's think about dates written in Roman Numerals.

Actually it is Hebrew that, given the fact it does not use Arabic numbers, has always used the letters of the alphabet as a numerical value.

Therefore, each sequence of letters, each word, can also be read as a number which is the sum of the numerical values of the letters that make the word.

In order to understand this concept, a table8 of "correspondence" between the letters of the Hebrew Alphabet and their numbers is displayed below:

alef 1
bèt 2
ghimel 3
dalet 4
hè 5
wêw 6
zêjin 7
hèt 8
tèt 9
yod 10
kêf 20
lamed 30
mèm 40
nùn 50
samek 60
ayin 70
pè 80
tsade 90
qòf 100
resh 200
shyn 300
taw 400

In addition, it is important to bear in mind that the various versions of the Bible that have followed one after the other for centuries are just simple translations of the Original Hebrew Text. Therefore, in these translations, even if most of the time they were the fruit of Divine inspiration, the number of the letters and of the words is obviously extremely different from the Original Text.

Biblical Hebrew is a language that contains extremely precise and meaningful data, which have been lost, that is, they can no longer be seen in various translations.
The mere fact that a numerical language was replaced by a non-numerical one is a real deviation of the numerical data that the Bible wants to convey.

BioBeing · 10-25-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pmarra

I have simply done what you have asked

many of you don't have time to visit my site

Kind of. I asked you to explain it.

Now that some of have seen your site (and the long above post) we are asking for more info. Like, why did God get pi wrong?

Infinite_Rules · 10-25-2005, 10:01 AM

Man, the lengths people are willing to go to just to prove that their God exists... I can understand the argument from incredulity, the ontological argument and even the "I just know he exists" assertion, but for the love of IPU, attaching a bunch of arbitrary numbers to letters of the bible as proof of God's existance!?

I'm truly speechless.

PaperCut · 10-25-2005, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pmarra

In the Hebrew language its true title is “BaRosh Yitbarê Elohim�?, which can be translated into English as “In the head God will create Himself�? or “In the mind God will create Himself�?.

This reminds me of memes and Dawkins' view of religions as infectious mind viruses. Perhaps the so called god is conducting the greatest viral marketing campaign of all times!

P.

Blackcat · 10-25-2005, 10:47 AM

Pmarra, here's some more numerology bullshit proof to make you feel more secure:

G is the 7th letter of the alphabet, O is the 15th letter, and D is the 4th letter. Add them up and you get 26, which is the number of letters in the alphabet. Therefore, God must exist.

Or, we can read 7, 15, 4 as a date, and with the usual numerological bullshit, conclude that it's the 15th of July, 4004BC. Oh my word, the Date of Creation!

I'm now going to flush my head down a nearby toilet...

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10-25-2005, 08:34 AM	#32
BioBeing Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 6,004	Pmarra - instead of just copying stuff from your web site and pasting it here, why not take the time to actually address the questions being asked of you?

10-25-2005, 08:53 AM	#33
Pmarra Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 75	I have simply done what you have asked many of you don't have time to visit my site

10-25-2005, 09:25 AM	#35
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	Pmarra: No, you haven't addressed the fact that 3.141554... is NOT Pi. Furthermore, you don't justify your chopping-up of "Elohim" to get three triangular numbers, you don't calculate the odds against some OTHER "miraculous" pattern appearing instead (three prime numbers, the squares of four consecutive integers, or whatever)... and so on. This is nonsense. And why should anyone have a "proper humble approach" to the Bible in the first place? It's just an old book, packed with stories that we now know to be (in many cases) not factual. Have you tried this sort of "analysis" with the Koran, or the Rig Veda, or Hubbard's "Dianetics", or the Harry Potter books? If not, why not?

10-25-2005, 09:37 AM	#36
Pmarra Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 75	Every letter of almost any alphabet in the world can be linked to numerical values, starting from units and ending with tens and hundreds. In ancient times this was a very common method for referring to quantities; for example, let's think about dates written in Roman Numerals. Actually it is Hebrew that, given the fact it does not use Arabic numbers, has always used the letters of the alphabet as a numerical value. Therefore, each sequence of letters, each word, can also be read as a number which is the sum of the numerical values of the letters that make the word. In order to understand this concept, a table8 of "correspondence" between the letters of the Hebrew Alphabet and their numbers is displayed below: alef 1 bèt 2 ghimel 3 dalet 4 hè 5 wêw 6 zêjin 7 hèt 8 tèt 9 yod 10 kêf 20 lamed 30 mèm 40 nùn 50 samek 60 ayin 70 pè 80 tsade 90 qòf 100 resh 200 shyn 300 taw 400 In addition, it is important to bear in mind that the various versions of the Bible that have followed one after the other for centuries are just simple translations of the Original Hebrew Text. Therefore, in these translations, even if most of the time they were the fruit of Divine inspiration, the number of the letters and of the words is obviously extremely different from the Original Text. Biblical Hebrew is a language that contains extremely precise and meaningful data, which have been lost, that is, they can no longer be seen in various translations. The mere fact that a numerical language was replaced by a non-numerical one is a real deviation of the numerical data that the Bible wants to convey.

10-25-2005, 10:01 AM	#38
Infinite_Rules Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 225	Man, the lengths people are willing to go to just to prove that their God exists... I can understand the argument from incredulity, the ontological argument and even the "I just know he exists" assertion, but for the love of IPU, attaching a bunch of arbitrary numbers to letters of the bible as proof of God's existance!? I'm truly speechless.

10-25-2005, 10:47 AM	#40
Blackcat Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK Posts: 93	Pmarra, here's some more numerology bullshit proof to make you feel more secure: G is the 7th letter of the alphabet, O is the 15th letter, and D is the 4th letter. Add them up and you get 26, which is the number of letters in the alphabet. Therefore, God must exist. Or, we can read 7, 15, 4 as a date, and with the usual numerological bullshit, conclude that it's the 15th of July, 4004BC. Oh my word, the Date of Creation! I'm now going to flush my head down a nearby toilet...

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