credoconsolans

:huh:

They didn't say it was Jewish. They said it was a Greco-Roman town and under this shop were buried these statues in a manner suggesting they were hidden. Why would pagans hide their statues? The article implies that they were hidden to prevent perhaps religious persecution by early Christians.

mountainman

Eusebius VC 57: How the Gentiles abandoned Idol Worship, and turned to the Knowledge of God.

HENCE it was that, of those who had been the slaves of superstition, when they saw with their own eyes the exposure of their delusion, and beheld the actual ruin of the temples and images in every place, some applied themselves to the saving doctrine of Christ; while others, though they declined to take this step, yet reprobated the folly which they had received from their fathers, and laughed to scorn what they had so long been accustomed to regard as gods.

Indeed, what other feelings could possess their minds, when they witnessed the thorough uncleanness concealed beneath the fair exterior of the objects of their worship? Beneath this were found either the bones of dead men or dry skulls, fraudulently adorned by the arts of magicians, (1) or filthy rags full of abominable impurity, or a bundle of hay or stubble. On seeing all these things heaped together within their lifeless images, they denounced their fathers' extreme folly and their own, especially when neither in the secret recesses of the temples nor in the statues themselves could any inmate be found; neither demon, nor utterer of oracles, neither god nor prophet, as they had heretofore supposed: nay, not even a dim and shadowy phantom could be seen.

Accordingly, every gloomy cavern, every hidden recess, afforded easy access to the emperor's emissaries: the inaccessible and secret chambers, the innermost shrines of the temples, were trampled by the soldiers' feet; and thus the mental blindness which had prevailed for so many ages over the gentile world became clearly apparent to the eyes of all.

GakuseiDon

MM, what is Eusebius VC 57 a reference to? I'd like to read more on that.

It's interesting to me that the Second Century Christians didn't appear to doubt that the Roman gods were demons that floated around the idols being worshipped, but 150 years later Eusebius writes that "neither demon, nor utterer of oracles, neither god nor prophet, as they had heretofore supposed: nay, not even a dim and shadowy phantom could be seen".

mountainman

Note that when Eusebius writes "the Gentiles" twice above, it appears
arguable that we might read this as "the Greeks", because it was the
temples of the Greek civilisation (or "graeco-Roman") that Constantine
appears to be knocking over like there was no tomorrow.

Written c.337 CE Eusebius "Life of Constantine" recounts a number of
the highlights of Constantine's career. The context to VC 57, VC 56 and VC58 are below:

Eusebius VC 56: Destruction of the Temple of Aesculapius at Aegae.

- FOR since a wide-spread error of these pretenders to wisdom concerned the demon worshiped in Cilicia, whom thousands regarded with reverence as the possessor of saving and healing power, who sometimes appeared to those who passed the night in his temple, sometimes restored the diseased to health, though on the contrary he was a destroyer of souls, who drew his easily deluded worshipers from the true Saviour to involve them in impious error, the emperor, consistently with his practice, and desire to advance the worship of him who is at once a jealous God and the true Saviour, gave directions that this temple also should be razed to the ground. In prompt obedience to this command, a band of soldiers laid this building, the admiration of noble philosophers, prostrate in the dust, together with its unseen inmate, neither demon nor god, but rather a deceiver of souls, who had seduced mankind for so long a time through various ages. And thus he who had promised to others deliverance from misfortune and distress, could find no means for his own security, any more than when, as is told in myth, he was scorched by the lightning's stroke. (2) Our emperor's pious deeds, however, had in them nothing fabulous or feigned; but by virtue of the manifested power of his Saviour, this temple as well as others was so utterly overthrown, that not a vestige of the former follies was left behind.

The date is before the "Council of Nicaea" c.324 CE.
Here is the VC58:

Eusebius VC 58: How he destroyed the Temple of Venus at Heliopolis, and built the First Church in that City.

SUCH actions as I have described may well be reckoned among the emperor's noblest achievements, as also the wise arrangements which he made respecting each particular province. We may instance the Phoenician city Heliopolis, in which those who dignify licentious pleasure with a distinguishing title of honor, had permitted their wives and daughters to commit shameless fornication. But now a new statute, breathing the very spirit of modesty, proceeded from the emperor, which peremptorily forbade the continuance of former practices. And besides this he sent them also written exhortations, as though he had been especially ordained by God for this end, that he might instruct all men in the principles of chastity. Hence, he disdained not to communicate by letter even with these persons, urging them to seek diligently the knowledge of God. At the same time he followed up his words by corresponding deeds, and erected even in this city a church of great size and magnificence: so that an event unheard of before in any age, now for the first time came to pass, namely, that a city which had hitherto been wholly given up to superstition now obtained the privilege of a church of God, with presbyters and deacons, and its people were placed under the presiding care of a bishop consecrated to the service of the supreme God. And further, the emperor, being anxious that here also as many as possible might be won to the truth, bestowed abundant provision for the necessities of the poor, desiring even thus to invite them to seek the doctrines of salvation, as though he were almost adopting the words of him who said, "Whether in pretense, or in truth, let Christ be preached." (1)

Yes, Eusebius exposes the primitive superstitions of the Graeco-Roman culture.

One analogy might be the idea of how Gracelands operates. We all think that the spirit of Elvis moves around Gracelands - or that the spirit of Gracelands and the spirit of Elvis are one. Or something to this effect. Like a living museum to the rock and roll culture.

Now imagine the place is bulldozed into the ground, with nothing left at all except a faint imprint of where the building foundations once stood. This is similar, in my humble opinion, to Eusebius reporting that there was "nothing - not even a dim and shadowy phantom (of Elvis) could be seen".


Commencing c.324 CE.

credoconsolans

So basically pagans were being persecuted and thus needed to hide symbols of their worship lest these soldiers Eusebius writes about, come trampling in their front doors.

Toto

In the second century, Christians believed in supernatural forces of various types. It was part of the conventional wisdom of the time.

In the fourth century, Christian mobs went around destroying idols to demonstrate that these pagan idols had no power (there's a description in Epiphanius IIRC.)

Does this mean that the 4th century Christians no longer believed in the demonic power of the pagan gods, or did they believe that their god had finally vanquished the pagan gods' power on earth?

If you think that Constantine and Eusebius were proto-Straussian politicians, they might not have believed in any supernatural powers, but accepted Christianity as a tool of imperial rule that worked best if the mob was convinced that the old Roman gods were dead and gone, as proven when those gods failed to protect their temples and statues.

Recall Elijah's challenge to the priests of Baal in 1 Kings 18. Their god failed. It's so easy to prove that someone else's god has no power.

Susan2

So, become the other Michael, or Gabriel or Lucifer, etc. Conquer by violence, attack, then plunder and rape. Wow. Replace one evil with another. Isn't that ironic.

andrewcriddle

This material is from Eusebius' Life of Constantine Book 3

Andrew Criddle

The Bacchanalian

It should not be at all surprising to find pagan beliefs persisting into the 4th century. Despite what the Christian propaganda will tell you, the early Christians were not interested in the unwashed rural peasants. Rather, early Christianity was primarily an urban phenomenon. The Christians of the 1st to the early 4th century were primarily interested in converting city dwellers (preferably middle and upper class citizens). By the time Constantine issued his edict of Milan in 312, Christianity comprised only 10-15% of the population of the Roman Empire. While, 10-15% of the population does not seem like a lot, it was concentrated in the urban centres of the empire. For all practical purposes the Christians controlled the cities of the Roman Empire....and when you control the cities you can control the empire. You probably see where I am going with this....... the Christians (with Constantine’s help) managed to take over the Roman Empire by taking control of the cities.

Even though the Christians controlled the Roman Empire in the early 4th century, they could not run roughshod over the pagans....at least not yet!! Remember in 312 the Christians were still a minority. Toleration of pagan beliefs was still widespread throughout the empire till the late 4th and even into the early 5th century. With control of the empire now in hand the Christians, they were now faced with the daunting task of converting all those pagan peasants in the countryside. Many laws were enacted restricting paganism. But they were very difficult to enforce and were pretty much ineffective. The conversion of the countryside was a long slow gradual process that took about 200 years to accomplish. Even as late as the early 700s there were still pockets of paganism located in isolated portions of the Roman (now Byzantine) empire. Since this is the case, one would expect to find pagan artifacts to be found all over the place in the 4th, 5th and even 6th centuries.

mountainman

Do you mind citing your sources for this demographic assertion that " in 312, Christianity comprised only 10-15% of the population of the Roman Empire."?