Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chili · 10-25-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

So the Jesus story really is a case, down to the first edition, of copying themes and no source to verify a human-Jesus kernel with no fictional copying from OT.

and this is true for much of history, and historical people. You cant dig up some mud and have it dated and say yep there was a flood at this exact time.

but we have so many elements that line up for jesus and his historicity. Really there is nothing out of place and every single attempt by mythers creates bigger questions harder to answer by their attempt that mathmatically doesnt cut it.

Just to show you how well things are recorded and what we know about passover events.

there was a old man trampled near a gate at the temple, during a very crowded passover. This passover took on a few nickname's due to one mans death 2000 years ago who was unimportant. But now lives on forever in history.

No different with jesus, were talking about a nobody teacher begging for food scraps so he and his 3-4 fishermen buddies could survive, no one would lift a eyebrow to due to his theology which really wasnt special, in fact it was common. and in a sea of 400,000 people, this jew was flat invisible, coming and going.

Had he not been put on a cross fighting the corruption in the temple due to the roman infection, not a soul would have ever remebered him. Only in his heroic actions fighting over money was he martyered as a messiah trying to do away with the evil oppressors. It didnt take long before like living roman emporers, he was claimed to be "a son of god"

theres your kernal

But the flood is beautiful imagery and worked very well, . . . as even today some pple are still looking for a piece of the ark so their belief might be validated to bring them peace on earth.

Catholicism has replaced that with the Advent wreath and now they are arguing over the color of these candles so it will make sense to them.

Of course many elements line up in history so that pple 'will believe' and come back to listen some more, but only with the hope that 'some day' the believer will find the truth in himself and take Jesus down from the cross to place himself upon it in the same allegorical way. Bottom line here is that nobody has a copyright on transformation from slavery to freedom.

And the temple was his own mind.

Chili · 10-25-2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Again, you are making stuff up. What old man are you talking about?? What source of antiquity mentioned Your old man??

When was the old man trampled?? Why would one trampled old man be worshiped as a God and was a Human Sacrifice who died for the Remiision of Sins of the Jews when the Jesus cult do NOT Sacrifice human beings to Gods??

Please, the Gospels are NOT history they are Mythology---in the Gospels Jesus was the Son of a Ghost that walked on the sea and transfigured.

See Matthew 1.18, Luke 1.26-35, Mark 6.49. John 1, Acts 1.9 and Galatians 1.1.

Just be careful as he was the 'firstborn reborn' that was conceived ex nilhilo by God here now reborn by faith out of good works, wherefore he was a carpenter with shepherds on hand to guide him to where faith wanted him to be, and so on to Bethlehem he went by faith alone, and that was be beginning of the end for him.

Perspicuo · 10-26-2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

So the Jesus story really is a case, down to the first edition, of copying themes and no source to verify a human-Jesus kernel with no fictional copying from OT.

and this is true for much of history, and historical people. You cant dig up some mud and have it dated and say yep there was a flood at this exact time.

but we have so many elements that line up for jesus and his historicity. Really there is nothing out of place and every single attempt by mythers creates bigger questions harder to answer by their attempt that mathmatically doesnt cut it.

Just to show you how well things are recorded and what we know about passover events.

there was a old man trampled near a gate at the temple, during a very crowded passover. This passover took on a few nickname's due to one mans death 2000 years ago who was unimportant. But now lives on forever in history.

No different with jesus, were talking about a nobody teacher begging for food scraps so he and his 3-4 fishermen buddies could survive, no one would lift a eyebrow to due to his theology which really wasnt special, in fact it was common. and in a sea of 400,000 people, this jew was flat invisible, coming and going.

Had he not been put on a cross fighting the corruption in the temple due to the roman infection, not a soul would have ever remebered him. Only in his heroic actions fighting over money was he martyered as a messiah trying to do away with the evil oppressors. It didnt take long before like living roman emporers, he was claimed to be "a son of god"

theres your kernal

A nobody teacher nobody else talked about is not an attested kernel of truth.

(This is my last response. I'm starting to discuss as if I knew something about the subject. Logic (or "logic"?) can only take you so far.)

Horatio Parker · 10-26-2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

...both history and theology converge on a proper answer to this: the historical Jesus will always be a fabrication, and the search for him antagonistic to true religious belief.

So the ground is being cut from under Ehrman, the agnostic scholar by the faithful.

You can't make this stuff up.

One can only hope that believers will take on other regrettable doctrines.

outhouse · 10-26-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

A nobody teacher nobody else talked about is not an attested kernel of truth.

actually, isnt it factual no one wrote about him while he was alive?

this means while alive he was nothing special. and remember, the roman authors who wrote the NT, wrote in a poor poverty stricken Tekton jew teacher, that they deified.

its a embarrassment that romans deified a typical Galilaean jew, and factually wrote it in like that.

why?

outhouse · 10-26-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Logic (or "logic"?) can only take you so far

the logic here

is multiple source from different places at about the same time! that didnt rely on one another that all describe about the same thing, that ressembles to a T what a large percentage of jews and romans would have known, seen and heard at a passover from a man fighting a corrupt governement.

nothing is out of line with logic, there is only a vast minority of untrained skeptics that create more questions then answers claiming a 100% mythical jewish man wrote in mythology.

Iskander · 10-26-2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

A nobody teacher nobody else talked about is not an attested kernel of truth.

actually, isnt it factual no one wrote about him while he was alive?

this means while alive he was nothing special. and remember, the roman authors who wrote the NT, wrote in a poor poverty stricken Tekton jew teacher, that they deified.

its a embarrassment that romans deified a typical Galilaean jew, and factually wrote it in like that.

why?

Who was deified and when?

Attributing special qualities to people was not unusual for the ancients: gods were plentiful in Europe and Asia and elsewhere.

Who is embarrassed about what?

outhouse · 10-26-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Who was deified and when?

a jewish teacher who stood up for his oppressed people against the corruption in the governement, roughly 2000 years ago at a passover.

Quote:

Attributing special qualities to people was not unusual for the ancients:

I understand this, its the mythers that do not. claiming we attributed this legend to "no one" doesnt even make sense

Quote:

Who is embarrassed about what?

that romans would worship one of their oppressed victims

aa5874 · 10-26-2012, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

A nobody teacher nobody else talked about is not an attested kernel of truth.

actually, isnt it factual no one wrote about him while he was alive? this means while alive he was nothing special. and remember, the roman authors who wrote the NT, wrote in a poor poverty stricken Tekton jew teacher, that they deified.

its a embarrassment that romans deified a typical Galilaean jew, and factually wrote it in like that.

why?

You don't know what you are talking about . You may have been duped into thinking that the Bible is history.

If the Roman authors wrote the NT then Jesus was considered and described as the Son of a Ghost.

Based on your statement, Roman authors wrote Matthew 1.18 and Luke 1.26-35 which state Jesus was Fathered by a Ghost.

Matthew 1:18 KJV

Quote:

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise...... When as his mother Mary....... was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Luke 1:35 KJV

Quote:

... The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and......... that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

It is irrelevant whether or not the Son of the Ghost was "deified".

A son of a Ghost is just Mythology with or without deification.

The NT is a compilation of Myth Fables from the 2nd century or later based on the PRESENT recovered data.

Iskander · 10-26-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Who was deified and when?

a jewish teacher who stood up for his oppressed people against the corruption in the governement, roughly 2000 years ago at a passover.

I understand this, its the mythers that do not. claiming we attributed this legend to "no one" doesnt even make sense

Quote:

Who is embarrassed about what?

that romans would worship one of their oppressed victims

These videos are a nice little survey of the origin of Christianity by an Anglican vicar in nine short videos made by the BBC. You might wish to have a look at it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_9MfFewdTo

We don’t know anything about Jesus.
I don’t think anybody ever did, except his mother if he was truly born. Your observation does not add too much.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.