Kapyong

Gday,

Some people just can't stop from using that phrase.

Nowadays it just means :
"crazy stuff I don't believe".


K.

GakuseiDon

Dave, if you can link me to Dr Price's current review or views on "The Christ Conspiracy", please do so.

As for his original review, this is what he wrote about his first impression upon reading the book:

"I got a copy [of The Christ Conspiracy] and read it for myself, and immediately I cringed, realizing that skeptics and freethinkers might, as apparently the television host did, regard my book [Deconstructing Jesus] and The Christ Conspiracy as interchangeable polemical weapons. The latter would confirm my suspicion that such people are no more discriminating than their mirror-opposites, the fundamentalist apologists, and are interested in any book, any argument, well- or ill-founded, that appears useful in the service of one's (religious or antireligious) cause..."

Here is his summation of "The Christ Conspiracy". If he now has a different view, please let me know:

"The Christ Conspiracy is a random bag of (mainly recycled) eccentricities, some few of them worth considering, most dangerously shaky, many outright looney. If one has the time, it is fun trying to sort them out. But no one whose disquiet with traditional Christian faith is based on solid fact or credible theorizing will want to recommend this book, much less appeal to it as justification for one's own doubts."

If Dr Price no longer thinks that many of Acharya S's theories are "outright looney" (his words!), then it would be good to understand which theories he is now supporting that he didn't support before and what evidence changed his mind.

Every time I ask you a direct question, you come up with that bilge. Here we have a thread devoted to Acharya S and her theories. Why not discuss them?

Dave31, what is your stance on reptilian shape-shifters here on Earth? Acharya S has stated that she is not willing to say "yes or no" on the topic. What about you? Yes or no? And do you think that it is feasible that an advanced ancient civilization still exists today and people misrepresent them and their crafts for aliens and flying saucers, and that their beliefs are the original source for the Osiris-Iris-Horus myths as well as the Garden of Eden story and the Christ myth?

GakuseiDon

Dave31, I think I can use Acharya S to throw doubt on the Pygmy claims. Could I ask you to:

1. Verify that I am quoting Acharya S correctly
2. Evaluate whether what I am saying makes sense

Thanks.

Acharya S believes that the Pygmies are the source of the Osiris-Isis-Horus myth (as well as Christ myth). She writes in "The Christ Conspiracy" (my bold):

[Jackson writes that] The Pygmies believed in a father-God who was murdered, and a Virgin Mother, who gave birth to a Savior-God Son, who in turn avenged the death of this father. These later on became the Osiris, Isis and Horus of Egypt. The Pygmy Christ was born of a virgin, died for the salvation of his people, arose from the dead, and finally ascended to heaven. Certainly this looks like Christianity before Christ. (page 388)

Here, Acharya S writes (my bold):

As Hallet explains, up to that point, the Congolese Pygmies had been isolated from any external contact since the time of the Egyptian prince Herkhuf's expedition to their territory, some 4,000 years ago.

So Hallet's point was that for the last 4,000 years ago the Pygmies had had no contact with the outside world, therefore his Pygmy friends couldn't have picked up the Osiris-Isis-Horus and Christ myth story elements from any outsider.

But in "The Christ Conspiracy", Acharya S writes that the Osiris story was around "some 6,000 years ago" according to Massey (p. 171). She gives other dates for the Virgin mother motif going back to 10,000 years ago (e.g. "Zoroaster was born of a virgin", p. 122)

So isn't it possible that -- assuming the content of what Acharya S has reproduced is correct -- the Pygmies might have got the Osiris-Isis-Horus story from the Egyptians 4,000 years ago? In other words, even assuming that Hallet was accurate in what he was reporting, according to Acharya S's research Hallet is wrong to assume the story elements definitely originated with the Pygmies?

aa5874

Well, well, well!!!!

The Pygmies have SOLVED the HJ/MJ argument.

The Pygmies have shown beyond any reasonable doubt that there was NO need for an historical Jesus for Pygmies to BELIEVE in Christ.

The Pygmies NEVER saw HJ of Nazareth or the Child of the Holy Ghost but still have stories about a Virgin birth, resurrection and ascension of Christ.

The Jesus story in the NT could have been WHOLLY invented based on the Pygmies who were ISOLATED for thousands of years.

Thanks to the Pygmies the HJ argument has been UTTERLY destroyed.

aupmanyav

I am from the ERP, rarely visit christian or muslim sub-forums. The adopted name Acharya S. made me curious, therefore my visit. So, Acharya S. is a fake. Let her do her thing. After all, all people need their daily bread.

ApostateAbe

Opposition to bad ideas serves a beneficial social purpose. Perversely fraudulent pseudosciences, ideologies and other misleading ways of thinking have a small effect on society only as long as they are respectively matched by counter-arguments and criticisms. I had my mind changed away from Acharya S's ideas by a critical thinker, but revolutions of thought are not even required--only a little doubt can dampen the motivation to promote bad ideas. For those people who need those bad ideas, then, yeah, obviously there is nothing that anyone can do to reverse it, but even people like Dave31 can be influenced further from the extreme in belief and evangelistic behavior. Some time ago, he wanted to found a religion centered on the ideas of Acharya S, but an extremist ideologue knows the strength of the current flowing against his own arguments after he or she jumps in the river, and that counter-current is the continual wash of critical reactions to Acharya S's claims wherever he takes them online.

aa5874

It is EXTREMELY significant that although Pygmies have been ISOLATED for thousands of years that they have stories about VIRGIN BIRTHS.

This piece of information clearly shows that in antiquity stories about Virgin Births were quite believable and did NOT require any figure of history at all.

It would appear that it was perhaps UNIVERSAL or WIDE SPREAD that Gods were to be born of a Virgin and NOT from the seed of Man.

There were Greek/Roman Gods born of a Virgin and now it is the same with the Pygmies.

The Jesus story, based on the Pygmies, was likely to be invented to be completely compatible with the beliefs of people of antiquity.

Even Justin Martyr ADMITTED that the Jesus story was NOTHING different to the Myth fables of the Greeks and Romans.

The Pygmies have certainly destroyed the HJ argument.

Godfrey

And THAT is the problem with Acharya S.- she seems completely uncritical of sources that appear to support her position, and rabidly dismissive of sources that contradict it.

I read the Christ Conspiracy awhile back, and afterward had the fascinating experience of trading comments with some of her adherents (dare I call them acolytes?) over the course of a year or so. They all remind me of Dave: vociferous, unyielding and almost frantic in their support.

It smacks of religion.

Toto

Slanderous comments split off here

ApostateAbe

And deleted?