Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DCHindley · 09-02-2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

BTW, are you aware of this ? A tablet currently at the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris, dating to 50 AD, was sent from Nazareth to Paris in 1878. It contains an inscription known as the "Ordinance of Caesar" that outlines the penalty of death for those who violate tombs or graves. However, it is suspected that this inscription came to Nazareth from somewhere else (possibly Sepphoris). Do we know of anyone else in that area, about that time, who it could possibly relate to ? Any particular people that we know who had a fixation with an empty tomb?

Jiri

You have to be aware of the place of burial societies in antiquity. Where most private associations (clubs, fellowships, etc) were either formally illegal or at best discouraged, there were some exceptions. One notable exception, for example, was that congregations of Jews were permitted to meet in order to worship their national god (this authorization was good anywhere in the empire, a privilege earned by Herod the Great, and no other religous faith was granted the priveliges enjoyed by Jews), and another was burial societies.

These would pool money through member dues and/or donations from patrons and buy gravesites (mostly caves with places for bodies to decompose and nitches for the collected bones to be kept) or cemetaries. These were for the exclusive use of the society, and they often assessed fines to those who used these caves or cemetaries for unauthorized burials. I am not sure, but this may be what was happening - some sort of common problem of newer groups taking over previous groups' cemetaries prompting the "ordinance of caesar." There may also have been grave robberies (for either funeral ornaments or magical spells requiring human remains), or purposeful desecration of graves out of sheer spite.

Check out the essays in Voluntary Associations (or via: amazon.co.uk) edited by John Kloppenborg.

DCH

Toto · 09-03-2007, 12:16 AM

Richard Carrier has an essay on that inscription: The Nazareth Inscription (2000)

Quote:

The Nazareth Inscription provides no evidence for Christianity or its claim of an empty tomb. It contains no new or unusual laws regarding graverobbing, the decree itself is not unique, and it has no references or direct links to Christianity of any kind. Moreover, it's date is most likely pre-Christian, its origin is not likely to be Nazareth, and its contents are not explainable even as a muddled imperial reaction to the theft of Jesus' body. To tie this to Christianity requires piling dozens of conjectures onto scores of speculations, and the rejection of a good supply of contrary indications and evidence, and none of this is either necessary or reasonable.

JoeWallack · 09-26-2007, 06:34 AM

God I love the sound of Psalms in the morning!

JW:
For all you JP Holding fans out there, JP has recently come out with an updated defense against the claim of geographical errors in "Mark". Here is his current Defense for 5:1:

http://www.tektonics.org/ntdocdef/markdef.html#geo

Quote:

" Mark 5:1 They went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes.

How this qualifies as an "error" is beyond me. It is hardly a definitive statement, referring only to a "region" - as might be expected if the party landed in a countrified area, and if this is from a sermon of Peter to a Roman audience that really did not care where some out-in-the-boondocks locale was precisely located! The city of Gerasa was about 30 miles southeast of the traditional location of this event; that being so, to speak of being in the "region" is hardly any more erroneous than saying, after landing a boat thirty miles south of Milwaukee, that you have landed in the "region" of Milwaukee. (According to The Jesus Legend [449], though, a textual-critical case can also be made for the reading "Gergasenes" which would make possible an identification with the settlement now called Khersa, which is indeed on the Sea of Galilee.)"

JP is like the Lion (yes, "lion") from The Wizard of Oz, he talks tough from his parent's basement but is afraid to engage you in Public. His buddy, Glion (yes, "Glion") Miller is like The Wizard and only writes from behind a torn curtain Veil. No one has ever engaged him live. As Yeshu Barra, said, "Sounds like Deja Jew all over again."

Joseph

Apologist. Title. In any discipline outside of Religion, a Liar. Within Religion, someone who has been Apologizing for so much with so little for so long, he is now qualified to defend against any claimed error with no evidence.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

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