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01-11-2009, 09:40 AM | #111 | |
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Though Mark's Greek is extremely colloquial, not at all in high literary style, this itself is surely a grand and ingenious transvaluation of Homer: whereas the great epics were archaic and difficult, only to be mastered by the educated elites, only to be understood completely by those with access to glossaries and commentaries and marked-up critical editions, Mark not only updated Homer's values and theology, but inverted its entire character as an elite masterpiece, by making his own epic simple, thoroughly understandable by the common, the poor, the masses, and lacking in the overt pretension and cleverness of poetic verse, written in plain, ordinary language.The closest statement I could find in MacDonald is the following: "The earliest evangelist disguised his dependence by writing in prose, altering Homeric vocabulary, rearranging episodes, and borrowing as well from Jewish scriptures." (p 6) |
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01-11-2009, 09:57 AM | #112 | ||
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I wonder what evidence he -- or RC -- would bring forward if they wanted to justify the claim that Mark was not dependent on Homer. Wouldn't it be exactly the same considerations that the appeal to to show that he does? In any case, there's nothing here about Mark's Greek being "rough", let alone that writes the kind of Greek he does to signify his "rejection of the pagan Greek culture around" him. In fact, how could one reject the pagan culture of one's day by consciously molding one's work on one of the recognized foundations and achievements of that culture? Jeffrey |
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01-11-2009, 01:28 PM | #113 | |
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Think of Kazantzakis' Last Temptation of Christ (or via: amazon.co.uk), or Corpus Christi, or the Life of Brian. These works all use the gospels as a basis, but subvert the conventional message associated with Christianity. |
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01-11-2009, 03:47 PM | #114 | ||
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Where, according to McDonald, does Mark do to Homer anything along the lines of what Cleese, Palin, et al. (and perhaps K -- don't know about CC) do to, and with, the stories and themes in Gospels? Perhaps we should write MacDonald to see if he thinks that what Mark does with Homer is what the lively lads did with the Gospels. In any case, what's become of the original notion that Mark's Greek displays antipathy towards the pagan culture of his day? Jeffrey |
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01-11-2009, 04:11 PM | #115 | |
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There is no exact analogy between the life of Brian's use of the gospels and Mark's use of Homer, but both use the source material to subvert its core values.
This started with something I remembered from Jonathan Kirsch's The History of the End of the World (or via: amazon.co.uk), p. 64 Quote:
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01-11-2009, 05:31 PM | #116 | |||||
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So it looks like what I said about Kirch's position on the import og Revelations language is correct. So far as I know, Adela's position is not only a minority one, but (as S-F notes) has been falsified by recent studies. Do you know of anyone who has followed her in this? Jeffrey |
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01-11-2009, 06:22 PM | #117 | ||
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The same may be said about the new testament apochryphal gospels. These are widely viewed with justified suspicion as "Romantic tractates" which are more clearly fiction than their canonical counter-parts. While the canonical gospel writers may or may not have indicated that they were writing fiction, who is going to stand up and argue that the apochryphal gospel writers were not writing fiction? Quote:
Best wishes, Pete |
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01-11-2009, 06:26 PM | #118 |
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Kirsch's bibliography cites the 1985 edition of Schüssler Fiorenza's The Book of Revelation: Justice and Judgment, while you are quoting from a later edition.
I wouldn't say that later studies have "falsified" Adela Yarbro Collins's statement, and I have no idea if it is a minority position, or what significance that would have, when "S F" uses those key phrases, "conjectural" and "more study is needed." |
01-11-2009, 06:44 PM | #119 | ||
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Jeffrey |
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01-11-2009, 07:02 PM | #120 |
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Ok, then I don't know why Kirsch quoted that phrase, which he just attributed to a "scholar." Perhaps he assumed that if Schüssler Fiorenza chose to rebut the idea, that someone somewhere had said it. You can take that up with him.
If you think that later studies have falsified her position, which studies? Who did them? How can an analogy like that be falsified in any case? |
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