Steve Schlicht

This thread is directed at theists who believe that perfection is possible...but that it isn't possible for humans to ever be perfect as they were cursed with the genetic flaw attributed to actions by their long ago ancestors.

This, in my view, is a perfect shot by my six year old son Connor:



He made the hoop in front of several adult witnesses after we finished up planting some trees donated by an atheist friend of ours at this event.

Your perception may be different, but that was one sweet throw.

So, what are the views of theists regarding examples of humanity performing perfect acts of care and compassion...and two-pointers, yet who lack a belief in sin and any other claims by adherents of the Christian mythos?

Steve

Rhea

Go Connor! Sweeeeet!

joedad

And he made that shot looking into the sun. That’s perfection.

Tigers!

I am not certain what you are getting at but I'll have a go.
Do you mean that that theists believe it impossible for non-Christians to perform acts of care and compassion? If that's the case then I will put your mind at rest. As a theist I know that non-Christians can perform acts of care and compassion.

Regarding your comments of perfection (which I inadvertantly deleted) what sort of perfection do you have in mind? If you mean moral perfection then I believe that this is impossible for us to achieve in this life. But physical perfection, mechanical perfection, the perfect goal etc: are all possible.

Steve Schlicht

Very nice.

Do you believe such non-Christians are condemned to everlasting fire, eternal hell, perpetual time-out away from the party (aka the "separation" feel good "punishment") because they simply find no evidence for the existence of any of the purported God(s)ess(es)?

Did you mean "inadvertently" or "purposely"?

If we care for others and help those in need...is that not morally perfect?

If a moral/ethical system proposes direct and certain actions are moral and we actively participate in those actions...how is that not perfectly moral (aka the two-pointer)?

Or, are you asserting that there are no moral absolutes and...therefore...no way to define how morality can be objectively "perfect"?

Or, is there some other option in your view that I haven't covered here?

Thanks for responding because this is a very interesting position of you to take regarding human beings and their ability to attain some "kinds" of perfection.

Steve

Tigers!

There is a difference between 'find no evidence' and 'refuse to accept the evidence available'.


If I had purposely deleted then I would not have mentioned it. I deleted 1st and then thought 'Oh dear'.
Are you talking perfection for that one (or more) acts or perfection as a whole? Our motives are must be taken into account. We can do a morally 'perfect' act for morally imperfect reasons.
What is the purpose of these 'perfectly' moral acts? To make you feel 'good' or to help others or both?
I accept that there are moral absolutes.

Mace

ziffel

Tigers, do you have some evidence you'd like to share, that my rejection of which would land me in hell? Or is this gonna be another one of those "no, I don't -- you should just be able to look at the pretty trees and warm sunshine and know that Jesus is Lord" kind of evidence claims? The resurrection maybe?

If my eternal damnation is at stake, the evidence that I need to accept should be crystal clear and undeniable, I would think. So far, I've seen nothing of Christian evidences that hasn't been soundly refuted or put into very strong doubt by philosophers, scholars and historians, as well as simple logic.

Chelsea

I am going to have to second this. You can't reject evidence that doesn't exist.

Tigers!

I doubt whether I have anything that you haven't already heard or seen before.