OldYgg

Illigically, I like to think my genetic heritage is something special. In this day and age, unless you are a teacher it seems less and less likely that you will pass down anything more than genetic heritage and what you pass to your children in terms of teaching.

My wife likes the idea of becoming a teacher, I'm not exactly sure how she'll make it - as she barely gets along with our two kids. I think it is different when it isn't 24/7 and it isn't your kids. I've known teachers in the past with a similar attitude about the children going through their classes. And this is a good thing.

Certainly, as everything we write on the web now, these things become a sort of heritage as well. Although, what will the future think of us - probably the most vocal and written generation in history - when sarcasm sometimes doesn't make the trip when you are participant in the conversation, much less 50 or 100 years in the future.

Or, IIDB database for the forums might just get wiped out and all our conversations will just be lost. Which might be a little sad. I kind of think that if I die shortly my sons would be able to discover my identity on IIDB and read my postings, good bad or whatever and get a little idea about who I am.

Of course, since if I die and my wife dies they would be raised by Christians, it is most likely if they ever did find my postings or writings on my computers that they would look on it in horror and like Elizabeth Cady Stanton, her children destroyed the vast number of her works in fear that people around them would find out she was an atheist.

Old Ygg

Thomas II

Logos,
If you don't know by now, I am an atheist, and don't believe in ANY of the gods sold by religion..

Having said that, my grandmother died last year, of "old age", being 102.
At the EXACT time of her death I was taken a shower, at home, hundreds of miles away.
Suddenly I heard the words "I'm going!...I'm going!...I'm going!" (repeated three times)...And then I saw the scene of my grandmother being young again and being welcomed by the love of her life, her second husband...My perspective was as a witness, from the side, about 50 feet away...

That was it...I did not think too much about it until a couple of hours later when my cousin called to tell me that she had died...at EXACTLY the same time I was taking my shower...

So what was that? I don't know...I'm just saying...

Coincidence?...I think not...

OldYgg

Well, even if we take you at your word about those events, it still isn't indicative of the existence of god. It might be indicative of the existence of some paranormal ability (which could certainly have a natural explanation).

Still, it is quite clear that this doesn't happen to everybody. My wife had no knowledge of her mother's death (and neither did any of the sibilings) when she died. And millions of people die all the time and rarely do you have this kind of experience.

So, at the very least you would have to refine your theory to understand that perhaps specific circumstances led to your ability in this one specific case.

However, given that millions of people die every year and that we think about the people we love when they are close to death or even when we just worry about them - it is not impossible that your 'vision' about your grandfather's death could coincide with his actual death.

I'm sorry for your loss as well. It seems like we get to a point in our lives when life is about loss.

My family (as noted earlier) has only two grandchildren - and no cousins, just the two brothers. Their lives will be about loss for a long time to come. They lost their grandmother while one was 2.5 years old and the other was just a fetus that had a chance for life. Grandfather on my wife's side is 16 years older than grandmother. He's 78 now. I'm 34, and I know that I'm overstressed and carry the typical North American 50 pounds overweight. I could die as young as my fifties as both my grandfathers did (they had help with alcoholism, though).

But, with luck, the best I can hope for the brothers is that they do in fact out live all the previous generation. That, out of 4 grandparents, 5 members of my generation and the two brothers, my sons, eventually, there will only be two people.

And then, in our society it is becoming less of an imperitive to have children.

Of course, I'm still being silly in thinking there is something special about my genetic pattern and that I want it to be passed down.

I can say that I, nor anyone I know in the real world, has ever had an occurrence of knowing someone they love has died at the time of their death, unless they were actually there to witness it.

But, if we look at it scientifically, perhaps we could find the people who have had such experiences, validate those experiences as much as possible and determine the mechanism of what is going on there - or determine that at present we cannot determine what is going on.

Old Ygg

Jedi Mind Trick

Wow! I think it's something more.

I was left with nothing comforting when my Dad died. Even the christian faith I had at the time only made things worse as my Dad's "salvation" was in question.

Unbeatable

I'm not talking about having a cup half full. I'm talking about how the person with no cup who will never experience thirst is luckier than the thirsty person who has a cup half full, though the person with the cup half full is of course luckier than the one with the cup 1/3 full, and they are luckier than the one with a cup 1/4 full. I'm not sure if I can adequately fit what I was saying into this cups metaphor, though, so this may not make sense.

This is not a matter of preference.

You're welcome. Though with this post, you're now starting to sound like congratulations are in order.

Ghostdog

Death does suck. There is nothing more saddening than watching a loved one pass away. My dad used to say "Do not be sad that such people have died, instead be glad to have known them". Atheism only seeks to explain the world through science. Unfortunetely this is a cold way of explaining things.

OldYgg

I don't know about congratulations, but it seems we take the idea of how many and who comes to our funerals as a matter of pride - even though we'll never know it,ourselves unless we're Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer.

I personally, don't think very many people would show up to my funeral. parents -> check, in-laws -> check, kids + wife -> check - friends - maybe three people, hmmm maybe less.

I don't know, but I just haven't touched very many people's lives. It isn't in the nature of the work I do and there seems precious little time to do anything else after commute time + work (when I commute).

Old Ygg

Lógos Sokratikós

Too cold. Lamentably, the Western world had to deal with abrahamic religions, which impelled many of its most inquisitive and thoughtful minds to cold scientistic [sic] atheism.

Any anthropologist will tell you rituals and mysticism are important. Figure this: Would Buddhism have survived if instead of its mysticism, it went straight on to saying bluntly that there are no gods, no self, no afterlife, go home?

Spirituality is important. It has slowly dawned on me, but this past experience even more. Mass was good for me, even though I went "pulease!" between my teeth at the priest's sermon. The ritual part, which was 90% of it, was beautiful. Except of course, I would have wanted the eucharist to be 100% inclusive and consisted of a pagan-like dance , or something inspired in Gestalt therapy, experiential and leading to closure, but that's beside the question. The ceremoniousness of the burial was also helpful.

sharon45

Having parents that respected reality would have been helpful to me.

There is no way at the moment to truly know if there was a god or not and simply wanting to believe doesn't really make things happen.

Focusing on this life and this world should be what's important.

Lógos Sokratikós

I believe that's what unifies christian humanistic and secular humanistic thoughts: the fostering of the concrete human being in this life (whether or not you'd want to foster it in the next).