IamJoseph

The Quran, according to my understanbding, is strictly lunar. The Hebrew is lunar/solar, and regarded the oldest and most accurate in existence.

IamJoseph

True, as you say this here in 2009. But show me a writings of this stat predating the Hebrew? Therein is the rub. :wave:


We wrestle with the Creator every day - even in forum debates! The correct term is 'STRIVE' [Yisrah/Israel/Strives].

I think you have a problem that an ordinary, historical river and mountain is not seen in a single writings prior to the Hebrew. So what! :wave:


Not me! But I can argue about speech being 6000 years old. And you can KO me by mentioning a single NAME older than 6000. Take your time.





Just like I have not noticed anyone discussing a river before? Your right - I have not noticed it. But I would if you ever get around to putting some proof - then you can legitimately call me blind. :wave:

bacht

Strictly speaking I don't think we know exactly what kind of laws the Israelites followed before the Babylonian exile. We know that later writers and editors wanted to present the pre-exile nation as followers of the Mosaic rules, which may or may not have existed before the 6th C BCE.

If victors write the histories, and the priests were the 'victors' in controlling post-exile Israel, then we might conclude that the perpective in the surviving texts is slanted in favour of the temple cult.

I don't think the Babylonians cared about Israelite monotheism. As always, the Jews were squeezed politically between Egypt and Mesopotamia. If they paid their tribute and didn't cause trouble they generally avoided the worst punishments from the superpowers.

spamandham

:banghead:

You've taken an irrational position that the Hebrew writings you worship are the oldest writings on earth. Since the originals do not exist, we can *not* carbon date them, and you've rejected all other dating mechanisms. There is no way through the wall of delusion you've created for yourself, so why should I play your game and present excerpts from writings that archaeologists date as older than your idolized texts? You're position starts off as irrational and unsupportable, and you give undo importance to trivialities, because that's all you've got.

This isn't a debate. However, every time I point out an absurdity, you interpret it as metaphorical. Where does the metaphor end? Perhaps the Creator is also a metaphor.

Since I don't buy into your delusion that the Hebrew writings are the oldest on earth, and since I give no special significance to writings about rivers and mountains, it isn't I with the problem.

The texts you worship are no more than 3000 years old. The consensus among archaeologists is around the 7th-9th century BCE for the oldest portions. The epic of Gilgamesh is older. Consider yourself KOd.

You require proof that weekends last 2 days? :constern02:

Amaleq13

You've got to be kidding!! :banghead:

It is painfully obvious that I have been asking for your source for the large block of quoted text you posted and which you indicated was "more than 15 years old". If they are your words from some 15+ year-old internet discussion, then just say so.

Species8472

The Hebrew calendar was a lunisolar calendar which used lunar months that were corrected to match the seasons in leap-years. Muslim calendar is lunar, and ours is solar.

In any case this is beside the point. I believe your original claim was that the 7 day week was invented by the Hebrews, which is yet to be proven. In either case they were not the only ones inventing it.

Species8472

No, you cannot turn this on its head. I am not claiming Moses did not exist, I am claiming there is no evidence he did exist, and there is plenty of reason to argue that the part of the Bible leading up to the captivity is in large parts myth. Moses is no different in Judaism than Hercules is in Greek mythology.

Susan2

Playing Rumpelstiltskin are we? The name above all names. Are you looking for Christ? Or, are you looking to see a star? Let me enlighten you, I like sparkly stuff. :wave:

Can't tell time without light.

The girl's name Shushana \sh(u)-sha-na\ is a variant of Susan (Hebrew), and the meaning of Shushana is "lily".

semiopen

Clivedurdle on here has argued an extreme minimalist position, and frankly I've been wondering if he's right. This would imply no exile followed by Ezra's redaction. If there was an exile, it certainly did not involve a large percentage of the people; priests and nobles and scum like that.

The wars with Babylon and Rome were about monotheism? I think you're confusing them with world war I.

andrewcriddle

A calendar with months starting on the new moon will typically have some months with 29 days and some with 30 days. Neither 29 or 30 is a multiple of 7. Hence the 7th 14th 21st and 28th days of such months will not produce a continuous seven day cycle.

Regarding seven as a special number and the seventh day as a special day is found in several cultures and trafitions. What is much more unusual is a continual seven day cycle, independent of month or year.

A continual seven day cycle appears to have arisen more or less independently twice in Ancient Europe and Asia. The Hebrew Week and the Hellenistic Astrological Week. The Hebrew Week is substantially older than the Hellenistic Astrological Week.

Andrew Criddle