Freethought & Rationalism Archive

bacht · 08-17-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakejonesiv

And that it was not a mere man who died for us, Isaiah says: "And the holy Lord remembered His dead Israel, who had slept in the land of sepulture; and He came down to preach His salvation to them, that He might save them."
Irenaeus (AH 3.20.4)

There is simply no such prophecy in either Jeremiah or Isaiah. It is found in no extant text and in no version of the Jewish Targum.

This passage sounds like inter-testamental rather than the Hebrew OT. In the Tanakh Sheol is the end, there's nothing after physical death.

spamandham · 08-17-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakejonesiv

I don't think so. A copy of Isaiah found in the DDS at Qumran, and it matched very well with the Masoretic Text. Am I missing something? :redface:

Best,
Jake

You're correct. I don't know why I was thinking 4th century on this.

Steven Avery · 08-17-2009, 12:50 PM

Hi Folks,

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakejonesiv

And that it was not a mere man who died for us, Isaiah says: "And the holy Lord remembered His dead Israel, who had slept in the land of sepulture; and He came down to preach His salvation to them, that He might save them."
Irenaeus (AH 3.20.4)

This passage sounds like inter-testamental rather than the Hebrew OT. In the Tanakh Sheol is the end, there's nothing after physical death.

And Briggs (The fundamental Christian faith, the origin, history and interpretation of the Apostles & Nicene Creeds 1913 p. 132) has it simpler, a Greek or Aramaic Targum on :

Isaiah 26:1
In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah;

Isaiah 26:19
Thy dead men shall live,
together with my dead body shall they arise.
Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust:
for thy dew is as the dew of herbs,
and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Ben C Smith · 08-18-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakejonesiv

I don't think so. A copy of Isaiah found in the DDS at Qumran, and it matched very well with the Masoretic Text. Am I missing something? :redface:

Best,
Jake

You're correct. I don't know why I was thinking 4th century on this.

Perhaps because that is the default century of origin for everything else that this board likes to discuss? :angel:

Ben.

bacht · 08-18-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

This passage sounds like inter-testamental rather than the Hebrew OT. In the Tanakh Sheol is the end, there's nothing after physical death.

And Briggs (The fundamental Christian faith, the origin, history and interpretation of the Apostles & Nicene Creeds 1913 p. 132) has it simpler, a Greek or Aramaic Targum on :

Isaiah 26:1
In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah;

Isaiah 26:19
Thy dead men shall live,
together with my dead body shall they arise.
Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust:
for thy dew is as the dew of herbs,
and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

That's an interesting passage, maybe poetic/metaphorical, but the majority of the OT is pretty clear:

As the cloud fades and vanishes,
so he who goes down to Sheol does not come up;
he returns no more to his house,
nor does his place know him any more.

Job 7.9-10

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