Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Solo · 06-17-2011, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

How many times did the rooster crow before Peter denied knowing Jesus? And who provided this information?

SempaiDon

Better still, which rooster ? Or were the roosters all synchronized ?

Jiri

Doug Shaver · 06-18-2011, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohai

What are your thoughts on that argument and rebuttal?

I think people who believe in inerrantism don't see contradictions, and people who don't believe in inerrantism do see contradictions. I'm not sure anything else is relevant to this debate.

DrZoidberg · 06-18-2011, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohai

What are your thoughts on that argument and rebuttal?

I think people who believe in inerrantism don't see contradictions, and people who don't believe in inerrantism do see contradictions. I'm not sure anything else is relevant to this debate.

So it's simply a question of ignorance?

aa5874 · 06-18-2011, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrZoidberg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohai

As my mum points out many times, there are no contradictions in the gospels! They were written by 4 people with different perspectives, different education levels etc.

It would be like having four people view a car accident. You may get different responses!

Wow! What a simple way to clear everything up. NOT!

Do you really think, in all honesty, that the disciples would have contradicted each other? Especially if they used Mark as a template.

Also, the gospels contradict each other on serious fundamental issues. Dont you think they would take their time and know what happened?

What are your thoughts on that argument and rebuttal?

The myth states that the disciples split up to spread the word. They might have written it on the road. Not to be an apologetic or anything but your mom's explanation I think makes perfect sense, assuming we accept the rest of the myth.

All it comes down to if you believe the Bible contains the inerrent word of God or if it's esentially written by people. I think, as Christians go, your mom has a very healthy attitude to the Bible. In effect she's saying that some common sense needs to be applied before swallowing what's in the Bible. It's hard to argue against the wisdom in that. This is a kind of Christianity I have no problems with as it is pretty harmless.

Actually she believes the Jesus stories are ALL TRUE or WITHOUT contradiction. Please look at the OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohai

As my mum points out many times, there are no contradictions in the gospels!....

An INERRENTIST wil make the very same claim.

DrZoidberg · 06-18-2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Actually she believes the Jesus stories are ALL TRUE or WITHOUT contradiction. Please look at the OP.

That's not how I interpreted the OP.

From the OP
"As my mum points out many times, there are no contradictions in the gospels! They were written by 4 people with different perspectives, different education levels etc."

This can be interpreted as his mom doesn't believe there are any real contradictions, even if it might seem like there's contradictions based on a literal interpretation of the Bible. Which was the interpretation I made. Basically that the disciples education and perspective needs to be taken into account.

When you've reached that position then you're in fact only using your own sense of wrong and right, and simply trying to find your own morals in the text. The text is then strictly speaking unnecessary, even if this type of believers don't see it that way. This is the kind of faith I think is harmless.

aa5874 · 06-18-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrZoidberg

... Basically that the disciples education and perspective needs to be taken into account....

Why would I have to take the disciples education into account? Did the disciples even have an education? Did they write anything? Were there disciples in the first place?

What kind of education would a disciple need to write about the Transfiguration, Resurrection and the Ascension of Jesus?

DrZoidberg · 06-18-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrZoidberg

... Basically that the disciples education and perspective needs to be taken into account....

Why would I have to take the disciples education into account? Did the disciples even have an education? Did they write anything? Were there disciples in the first place?

What kind of education would a disciple need to write about the Transfiguration, Resurrection and the Ascension of Jesus?

I'm just reading what it says in the OP that his mother believes.

I personally doubt whether the disciples at all existed. Whatever grain of truth their may or may not be in the Bible it's well buried under layers upon layers of myth.

aa5874 · 06-18-2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrZoidberg

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Why would I have to take the disciples education into account? Did the disciples even have an education? Did they write anything? Were there disciples in the first place?

What kind of education would a disciple need to write about the Transfiguration, Resurrection and the Ascension of Jesus?

I'm just reading what it says in the OP that his mother believes.

I personally doubt whether the disciples at all existed. Whatever grain of truth their may or may not be in the Bible it's well buried under layers upon layers of myth.

Well, I doubt that his mother does NOT believe that the Gospels were written by the disciples and that they were eyewitnesses.

DrZoidberg · 06-18-2011, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrZoidberg

I'm just reading what it says in the OP that his mother believes.

I personally doubt whether the disciples at all existed. Whatever grain of truth their may or may not be in the Bible it's well buried under layers upon layers of myth.

Well, I doubt that his mother does NOT believe that the Gospels were written by the disciples and that they were eyewitnesses.

That's not the issue. She still believes their subjective interpretation of the events need to be taken into account. That's clearly stated in the OP. That rules out a literal interpretation of the Bible

OLDMAN · 06-18-2011, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrZoidberg

... Basically that the disciples education and perspective needs to be taken into account....

Why would I have to take the disciples education into account? Did the disciples even have an education? Did they write anything? Were there disciples in the first place?

What kind of education would a disciple need to write about the Transfiguration, Resurrection and the Ascension of Jesus?

It is not with passing glance that we should note that Jesus's deciples are well educated, also they are rich, they own fishing boats and houses and property. This is the main reason why we have to listen to this tripe today. No other.

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