Freethought & Rationalism Archive

SamsaraSurfer · 06-21-2007, 05:18 PM

Just a few thoughts on the origonal question of this thread:

Is someone who tries to respect other people, doesn't rape babies, is a good father, loves his neighbor, etc. but openly doesn't believe that Jesus even existed, let alone saved all of mankind from "sin" a good person or not?

Certainly a person who treats his fellow's with dignity and respect is a good person. We judge others and ourselves by our works and such works as noted above are commonly considerd "good" regardless of the world view of the one making the judgement.

There are lots of people, Christian and otherwise, that act as though their belief makes them better than anyone else, what foolishness!! The concept of freedom of will entails that we are free moral agents and make our choices as to our behavior. The belief in the divinity and purpose of Jesus does not in and of itself make someone a good person, I hold such a belief myself and have often caught myself in either actions or thoughts that I don't consider to be those of a "good person". I do take comfort that I am forgiven of my trespasses (both by God and sometimes by my fellow men) as I am called to forgive those who trespass against me, but that forgiveness is not a byproduct of my belief. That is I sure haven't done anything to earn it and it certainly does not elevate me to a plane above anyone else.

TomboyMom · 06-21-2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by achristianbeliever

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcobop

Is someone who tries to respect other people, doesn't rape babies, is a good father, loves his neighbor,

Loves his neighbor and is a good father. You know your absolutely right if a person never once sins they don't need Jesus. I have no problem with that.

Here is a question though can you actually accomplish it.

Let's try this love your neighbor thing: Ok go ahead and think about people and try not to think anything bad about them;
-Think about everyone who has sent you email (this includes spam)
-Think about everyone who has given you a bill after fixing your car
-Think about every American President
-Think about every celebrity

Yep I thought I was a good person too.

Christians like a christian believer believe that people are bad. That's why they need Jesus. It's part of what's so vicious and ugly about their religion.

Clouseau · 06-21-2007, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcobop

This is a tangent from another thread.

I have been told so many times that there are Christians in work, rather than in word. So does this mean that "Christian" is synonymous with "Good Person"?

Here's another way of putting it:

Is someone who tries to respect other people, doesn't rape babies, is a good father, loves his neighbor, etc. but openly doesn't believe that Jesus even existed, let alone saved all of mankind from "sin" a good person or not?

The Bible says not. The Bible says that those who are noble accept Jesus, and become holy, and those who are ignoble do not accept Jesus, and stay unholy, even if they are superficially respectable, or have a cultivated 'aura' of holiness.

CreamFilledGiraffe · 06-21-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by achristianbeliever

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcobop

Is someone who tries to respect other people, doesn't rape babies, is a good father, loves his neighbor,

Loves his neighbor and is a good father. You know your absolutely right if a person never once sins they don't need Jesus. I have no problem with that.

Here is a question though can you actually accomplish it.

Let's try this love your neighbor thing: Ok go ahead and think about people and try not to think anything bad about them;
-Think about everyone who has sent you email (this includes spam)
-Think about everyone who has given you a bill after fixing your car
-Think about every American President
-Think about every celebrity

Yep I thought I was a good person too.

So if you're not perfectly good you're no good!?

What kind of father would impose such a standard on his children?

LetUsRatiocinate · 06-21-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

The Bible says that those who are noble accept Jesus, and become holy, and those who are ignoble do not accept Jesus, and stay unholy, even if they are superficially respectable, or have a cultivated 'aura' of holiness.

Come on, people! Don't you get it YET? Your "'aura' of holiness," anything good you may do, remains UNHOLY unless you say the magic Jeebus words first. You are "ignoble" unless you have accepted Jebus.

Repeat after me:
I (I)
being a depraved, abjectly horrible sinner by default no matter how good a person I really am (being a ... wait a minute; what?)
do hereby sign on with Jebus' everlastingly winning team (do hereby sign on to ... I don't think so)
and renounce the debil and all evil (OK, I'm cool with that [snicker])
and pledge to serve (and pledge to serve)
the most high (the most high)
Evan Almighty (...standards of human conduct)
and so escape the fires of hell, (to benefit my corner of the planet,)
thus becoming noble. (thus becoming noble.)
Amen. (Whatever.)

Now, don't you feel holier?

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06-21-2007, 05:18 PM	#21
SamsaraSurfer Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Manchester, GA Posts: 14	Just a few thoughts on the origonal question of this thread: Is someone who tries to respect other people, doesn't rape babies, is a good father, loves his neighbor, etc. but openly doesn't believe that Jesus even existed, let alone saved all of mankind from "sin" a good person or not? Certainly a person who treats his fellow's with dignity and respect is a good person. We judge others and ourselves by our works and such works as noted above are commonly considerd "good" regardless of the world view of the one making the judgement. There are lots of people, Christian and otherwise, that act as though their belief makes them better than anyone else, what foolishness!! The concept of freedom of will entails that we are free moral agents and make our choices as to our behavior. The belief in the divinity and purpose of Jesus does not in and of itself make someone a good person, I hold such a belief myself and have often caught myself in either actions or thoughts that I don't consider to be those of a "good person". I do take comfort that I am forgiven of my trespasses (both by God and sometimes by my fellow men) as I am called to forgive those who trespass against me, but that forgiveness is not a byproduct of my belief. That is I sure haven't done anything to earn it and it certainly does not elevate me to a plane above anyone else.

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