Petergdi

We have very good data for 18th century london in James Dodson's 1756/7 manuscript "First Lectures on Insurances", the first paper on actuarial science. http://www.kabele.org/papers/dodsonms2.pdf

Peter.

spamandham

Yikes! I don't want to try to figure out the probability of living to 80 and 90 from all that. Surely someone has already done this?

sschlichter

so, when you do not have statistics you need to prove something that you have already decided is true, then you use other statistics until you come up with something better. Why not use the mortality rate of Russian orphanages?

Please provide citations for the ancient statisticians you are alluding to.

~Steve

Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

Steve is of course right to question statistical broken field running unto moving goal posts. We should be wary of abstract statistical manipulations that are not directly relevant.

That said ..

Luke opens up with two elderly folks. The air was clean, people hiked and worked daily even to elderly ages, in the NT a walk from Galilee to Jerusalem was simply a normal part of life, the food was fresh and the soil was generally deeper and richer than today and artificial additives were not needed or used. And the Jewish populace did not eat parasite-laden scavenger meats.

Here is a post where two folks who occasionally disagree discussed this point with agreement.

How important is Micah 5:2 to Christians
http://www.freeratio.org/showthread....91#post3155491
"Luke begins with the heart of two elderly folks expressed toward Messiah. Simeon and Anna, and Anna is a very active 84."

Note: I am not relating this directly to any discussion of Pliny or Sam the Sham, which I have not followed. I am simply stepping in to say that an active 80+ year old is common in many 'backwards' cultures today, and was likely common in 1st century Israel.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

show_no_mercy

Luke also has the nonsense of Jesus being so popular that Herod wants him to demonstrate a miracle right in front of his eyes.

Why are you assuming Luke is historical?

sschlichter

Why do you find that hard to believe. Luke knew christians in Herod's household (as he stated) and it is a collaborative bit of evidence that he is the only one that recorded what occurred in Herod's household.

~steve

show_no_mercy

So... you are trying to corroborate Luke with more Luke? That is circular. How is that different than me saying "everything I say is fully substantiated by my opinion"?

sschlichter

yes, of course, Luke is consistent. he says that he knows followers of Christ in Herod's household in a separate context and then later supplies information about what occurred in Herod's household.

show_no_mercy

Batman comics are consistent. Do you understand what "corroboration" means? Do you understand what "circular" means?

sschlichter

you used those words and they are not germaine to my point. neither are your illustrations.

It is important to note that Luke is consistent with himself on this point. I am not trying to illustrate that Luke corroborated with someone else. I am showing that Luke is unique in this report and it is consistent with the fact that he knows women who work in Herod's household.