Pappy Jack

Yes, I was thinking of going through the thread and making a summary of the situation after 11 pages, but this just about sums it up as well as anything.

-Jay-

After 15 thread-pages, Dave gets a toaster.

regards,

NinJay

Seven Popes

Tyre prophecy,FTW. Pwned.

Dave Hawkins

No. SOME archaeological evidence for the events of Exodus includes ...

1) Egyptian chronology being out by several centuries thanks to a mistake by Champollion, perpetuated uncritically by people like Kitchen
2) Evidence of many things we would expect to find once we begin looking in the right time period, such as ...
3) Large numbers of Hebrew slaves
4) The abrupt end of the 13th Dynasty (Dudimose) followed by foreign occupation ... exactly what we would expect if Dudimose's entire army was destroyed as recorded in Exodus
5) Evidence of mass burials at the end of Dudimose's reign (10th plague?)
6) Manetho's statement about a "blast of God" during the reign of Dudimose
7) Evidence that Egyptians had horses confirming the Exodus account of Egyptian chariots (some have said Exodus is fictional because Egypt didn't have horses)
8) Corroboration of Artapanus' statement that Moses was born in the reign of a pharoah called Khaneferre ... Rohl's New Chronology DOES place a ruler called Khaneferre Sobekhotep IV at the time of Moses' birth as determined from Thiele. This is the ONLY king named Khaneferre throughout the whole of pharaonic civilization. (Rohl, p. 283)
9) Evidence for the palace and cult statue of the Vizier Joseph

I'm sure there is much more. We just need more scholars to look in the right time period.

Read Rohl, Lucretius. You'll learn some interesting things.

Mikael

How "large" number are we talking ?
how "massive" are we talking?
Do we have any egyptian sources, saying that the whole Pharos army just "vanished" ?

shirley knott

Or, read real Egyptologists and learn interesting facts and theories supported by real-world work rather than absurdist doctrinaire fantasies.
And do note that dave does not consider himself sufficiently familiar with Rohl's "work" to debate it, but freely uses it to challenge any and every notion, fact, or theory that he can. All to save his desperately silly fantasies about Genesis.
BTW, very good catch on one of Wally Widdlepants more egregious blunders in his silly little notion that dave is championing in E&C. Good one indeed!
And, of course, one that dave will never, ever, ever honestly address.

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott
PS. dave, you owe me an apology over on E&C.

VoxRat

[who else, other than Rohl, thinks so?um... you seem to have inadvertantly numbered this promise to deliver evidence as evidence itselfCorrection: a handful of slaves with apparently Semitic names.Well, no. Not really. Can you think of another instance where one power destroyed an army, and then an unrelated power took over? Because that's what I would expect. Moreover there no independent evidence for the whole Egyptian army being destroyed, and the end of a dynasty hardly constitutes any. How many other dynasties were ended as a result of the entire army getting destroyed? How many were ended without the entire army getting destroyed?Mass burials? Plural? Hardly.Make about 12 other far-fetched assumptions, including Rohl's chronology being right, "Dudimose" being the Exodus Pharaoh, the "blast" in question referring to anything having to do with Exodus... and maybe it will rise to the level of irrelevant coincidenceDon't forget the mention of the River Nile! Because that's mentioned in Exodus also, I believe, and is known to actually exist!This all seems to depend on "alternate reality enthusiast" Rohl. If and when I see any reason to read Rohl, this might mean something to me. As it stands, I don't.There is zero evidence for anything of the kind. See discussion of same above.
You're "sure" because, as usual, you assume your conclusion first, then go looking for "evidence" to support it. But the "evidence" you list above amounts to zero, so far as I can tell. And read this website, and tell us where it's wrong.

Jack the Bodiless

...WTF?

So conventional Egyptologists say that Tutankhamun was buried with ceremonial... rickshaws?

spin

You have the nerve to spout stupidity about someone the bulk of whose work you haven't read and what little you have, you skimmed and misrepresented.

Further example of not knowing what you are talking about. Fiddling about trying to change chronology will simply make sure connections like the Amarna letters which involved the Hittites, the Assyrians and the Babylonians fall apart with no solution other than the naff attempts by Rohl to rearrange chronology in every other culture because he has made a mess with the Egyptians..

What primary evidence? This is just part of the one series of conjectures you've itemized as separate evidence. If the source is what I think it is, why do you say "Hebrew" slaves and not "Semitic" slaves? This latter term covers a wider group than Hebrews. Someone is fudging evidence.

What is the exact source? Velikovskii?

But what is the evidence?

The 13th dynasty came to an end due to the development of foreign power we commonly call the Hyksos.

The eruption of Thera.

It is an anachronism. Horses were introduced by the Hyksos. (And horses are evidence of an Indo-European component amongst the Hyksos.) Besides the Hyksos the first truly Egyptian users of horses were the 18th dynasty and they needed Mitanni experts as there was not a local tradition of horse use.

Artapanus is the reason why Rohl stretched his work to fit Sobekhotep IV.

But tell me how many years were there between the time of Sobekhotep and Dudimose?? :wave:

If I understand this stuff it refers to a Hyksos king.

When you are audacious enough not to have the guts to defend the crap you use, I'd recommend that you read some real Egyptian history (such as Kitchen's "Third Intermediate Period") before you read Rohl's rubbish. You would learn how much evidence Rohl is flying in the face of.


spin

Magdlyn

LOL!



http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehisto...iotmaking.html

Etc. Thanks for the laugh!