Plognark

Holy crap. So pure water forms more regular, consistent crystals, and impure water forms imperfect, flawed crystals. I have one word for this:

DUH!

Hmm....how many times will this thread inspire me to use big letters I wonder... :banghead:

Plognark

It figures Randi would have an entry on this "dr." Emoto wingnut.

The stupid, it burns

Anyhow, scroll down a bit. he's got several entries on this dummy.

http://www.google.com/u/JREF?q=Dr.+Emoto+&sa=Go%21

charis

Hello Chaupoline,
Is it OK to ask you to tell what (or Who) do you believe?

It is becoming too boring to discuss the water problem. May be you could tell your testimony?
Thank you for your participation very much.

capsaicin67

"Bad" things happen to people that do "good", "good" things happen to people that do "bad". People search the tea leaves of the universe for patterns and meaning for what happens. The same way that they usued to cut open animals to look for signs in their spilled guts, to try and understand their lives and make better decisions. Nothing new.

The problem is that *supernatural "tools"* don't work consistently, scientific ones do moreso. Which suggests that maybe the whole supernatural thing is something people invented. Because, as is often cited around these parts, the universe appears to work in a suspiciously similar fashion---somewhat random and unjust, with *some* things happening as a direct result of specific, real behaviors of course---to how it would work if there were no supernatural at all.

Thus, I would suggest, we interact with life as if there were no supernatural.

But at times things remain uncertain, there are unjust losses and there is a variety of suffereings. Like the tsunami. When underinformed and/or fearful people encounter such things they search for metaphysical meaning when the simple answer is likely that it had nothing to do with either. Talking about the gods' punishments and rewards is crazy talk at the end of the day. Any of us can make up any shit as the "reason" for any event because shit is happening all the time. Gobs of it. And I've seen things go the way of someone causing harm, and go the wrong way on someone trying to ease suffering. And we can make ourselves dizzy making crap up to try and make something that has nothing to do with supernatural morality, appear as if it does.

The universe works the same way as it would if there were no supernatural at all. However, the idea of fanatical superstition can compromise the thinking of people and eb used to mask or justify or delude themselves or confuse others in a manner that facilitates harm. The idea is dangerous, despite the "reality" of personal gods being extremely unlikely.

Chaupoline

I believe that God created a world that is based on natural law. Zeus doesn't cast lightning bolts because he is angry. Lightning just happens.

We currently believe:

http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/science.htm

God has created natural laws to control the weather, and everything in reality. Science is how we learn more about creation. God didn't create the tsunami to punish anyone. The tsunami happens because there was a big underwater earthquake. God didn't create us with automatic knowledge. Adam was initially tasked to name everything in the Garden of Eden. What God wanted Adam to do was learn about the world. The end of suffering will come when we understand the world around us and figure out how to prevent disasters from occuring. It also will occur when everyone is acts in a just manner. Right now we don't understand everything about the world and we don't act in a just manner. This is why there is suffering in the world.

I consider myself a Christian, because I agree with what Jesus taught. From the time of Moses onward, the tribes of Israel failed because they never tried to understand what was told to them and why. They just got caught up in the law and the letter. That was what Jesus stated was wrong with their society. Instead of taking everything at face value, determine why things happen and not just condemn and throw everything out.

Faith is believing things on a hunch. Everyone of us, ateists included, do this everything. The only thing we know is that we exist. Everything else is dependent on our senses. The faith that I am displaying is that each of you are real. I can never truely prove it, but I have faith that it is so. However, I believe that God is real as well and that Jesus' system for how to interact with others is sound. I also believe that the Eightfold path is a good system too. In the Bible there is a lot of speculation. I believe that God wants us to work together and figure out as close to the Absolute Truth and Absolute Morality as we can. But God is not going to step in personally and tell us what they are. He wants us to figure it out for ourselves.

If God doesn't intervene in our lives, I do not see why someone would see it as a crutch for the mentally weak. Although, I think that if the belief in God does provide people emotional strength then it is definitely beneficial. One of the problems affecting returning warriors is that they oftentimes will suffer from Combat Stress. For some reason, they do not accept the help that is offered from VA psychiatrists. This has been referred to as the John Wayne Syndrome. If you try to toughten everything out on your own, your mind is going to eat you up from the inside. Belief in God is not going to make you a better person though. Wanting to become a better person will make you a better person. Attitude is everything.

charis

Chaupoline,
That is interesting. Did you study Christian psychology? Could you explain what does it mean VA psychiatrists? And more about the John Wayne Syndrome?

Is it delicate to ask you what church do you go?

Thank you so much that you are here.

funinspace

Yet xians also used to believe that daemons threw lightening bolts, much like your Zeus analogy. So miracles don't happen in violation of natural laws? Or is this an area where the gods still play. I always have found it interesting how gods/deamons/satan diminished as we mortals began to understand this natural world. In 250AD the Church of Rome had 52 exorcists, a Bishop, 47 presbyters, and seven deacons. How many exorcists are in your church? Why so few or none? Did Satan pack his bag of tricks up and take his daemons away? Why did your Jesus see so many daemons?

Chaupoline

I'm sorry for the acronym. VA stands for Veterans Affairs. The John Wayne Syndrome is when someone doesn't look for help, ignores the problem and tries to toughen it out.

I only wrote about what I believe. I have also studied up on the supernatural aspects of the Judeo-Christian religion, but I am unsure if I really believe it. A lot of what is written in the Old and New Testament seemed to me to be religious speculation. Kings and Chronicles, the letters from Paul, and so forth are what I am talking about, in these regards. I know these are historical documents but I don't know if they are any more relevant to the nature of God than the philosophical writings of St. Thomas Aquinas or Origien.

James T

Interesting that you linked these two. I do see belief in god as a crutch for the mentally weak, although I'd say it differently. I also see a willingness to recognise your problems and go to ask for help as a good thing and not in the slightest being related to the God as a crutch issue. After all I can demonstrate the existence of VA psychiatrists.

Chaupoline

How do you see a belief in God as a crutch for the mentally weak? I seem to have misplaced my crutches and could probably use them.