jjramsey

It would have to have been written differently, just to avoid confusion with the everyday name "Jesus."

Chris Weimer

In Hebrew and I think Aramaic the genitive comes after noun it modifies, so Yahweh would be after salvation if it were a title.

Anyway, it's a flimsy argument. Are we going to claim people named Geoffrey as "Friend of God"?

Amaleq13

Well, I guess that settles it.

We've got an apparent pre-Pauline hymn that possibly identifies the name "Jesus" as something bestowed after the Son of God had allowed himself to become the ultimate atoning sacrifice for humanity but it is "flimsy" to observe that the literal meaning of the name is entirely consistent with that possibility?

If they are depicted in a story where they are specifically depicted as filling the role of God's friend? It seems foolish to dismiss it.

Chris Weimer

I said flimsy argument, not wrong. I'm not dismissing it off-hand, but it doesn't hold a lot of water, especially, as J. J. Ramsey mentioned, it was a common name then. You're absolutely right - it is possible, but is it probable is what we should be looking for. Anything is possible, even less probable.

Amaleq13

He mentioned it but he didn't explain the logic behind it. As I responded, it is the literal meaning that makes it an appropriate title (name) not whether it was rarely used.

Even if we don't consider it a title, per se, but a name bestowed because it appropriately describes the role the Son fulfilled, how is the commonality of the name relevant?

Salvation of God? So would it be written differently in the original language(s)?

jjramsey

There are two problems with using a common name as a title. First, there would be confusion because the title would be mistaken for a name and thus not recognized as a title. Second, the commonness of the name as a mere name means the title lacks punch. As a somewhat silly example, imagine someone who tried to call attention to their power to hammer people (literally or figuratively) by calling himself "Smith." Obviously, this doesn't work nearly as well as calling oneself "Hammer," which, though a common object, is not common as an actual person's name and thus called attention to itself.

If the name is common enough, then it is questionable to assume that the name was bestowed due to the role being fulfilled, rather than a coincidence. Remember that for the one Jesus who was purported to be "God's salvation," there were a heap more who were just ordinary Jews.

Chris Weimer

Yes. Names are always formed differently than normal phrases. Think of Geoffrey - God-friend, but it means "friend of god".

Amaleq13

I don't think the first would actually be a problem within the community but the second certainly seems plausible.

On a semi-related note, do you think it unlikely that any messianic claimants/rebels would have deliberately taken on the name "Joshua" for the Scriptural significance?

Amaleq13

If not "Jesus", then was it "Christ" or "Lord" that was bestowed upon the resurrected Son?

Chris Weimer

By whom? Paul? The gospellers? The earliest Christians?