Sheshbazzar

That's funny. Every text of Luke 3:6 that I could locate has Jebus arguing with the Pharisees about what was lawful to do on the Sabbath.
Pray tell, where can I purchase one of these amazingly different texts you cite?

Tom Sawyer

There's your problem. It's Luke 6:3 I was referencing, not Luke 3:6.

Toto

We have no evidence of such prayers, and they would distort the story line. Mary was chosen, not self-selected.

Adding these prayers is as much of an addition as Tom Sawyer's little joke.

As I argued in the previous thread years ago, this discussion is all anachronistic. In ancient societies, up until very recently, young women did not have a choice in the matter. The choice belonged to a girl's father and/or the husband her father selected for her. Pregnancy was her destiny, and there's no point in resisting fate. The young girl could only hope for a high status husband and good health and an easy childbirth, preferably leading to a male child who would add to her own status and future security. This is how human society survived.

Keith&Co.

Well, according to the Catholics, Mary was chosen before she was born, what with the foregiveness from original sin and so on, the immaculate birth.

So whether she prayed or not, it was a done deal.

Aside from that, Mary didn't really meet the requirements for the ancestry of the Messiah, what with her reputed ancestry including a character that was permanently cursed that he and his offspring didn't get to sit on David's Throne. That prayer sholdn't have been answered in the affirmative, as it makes God go back on his Word.

Well, again, our sexual harrassment training says that it's wrong to use such power over a subordinate, whether they cooperate or not. if it's immoral, it's immoral. If she starts singing to the bluebirds and sunflowers, that doesn't make it okay. Just means that the coercer picked a good victim...

DCHindley

It is John 20:13-16 "They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him." 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. 15"Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."

Writing about 197-198 A.D., Tertullian rhetorically addresses the Jews (De Spect. xxx.):
This is your carpenter's son,
your harlot's son;
your Sabbath-breaker,
your Samaritan,
your demon possessed!

This is He whom ye bought from Judas;
He who was struck with reed and fists,
dishonoured with spittle,
and given a draught of gall and vinegar!

This He whom His disciples have stolen away secretly, that it may be said He has risen,
or the gardener abstracted that his lettuces might not be damaged by the crowds of visitors.

DCH

Scotsguy44

Yes, Mary was chosen, but on what basis was that choice made? We are not given that basis hence caution ought to be present in making firm assertions like 'there was no consent' (this aside from the fact that explicit consent is given).

There is no harm in establishing that anachronistic occurrence and then going further and showing that even if that is ignored that there is still a stronger case for consent than for not giving consent and no rape or corruption of a minor is present in the text.

Thanks
Matt

jakejonesiv

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