Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MrMacSon · 04-25-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

the jesus story revolves around a poor peasant traveling teacher who went up against the man [the romans] and was fighting the outrageous taxation and the corruption of jewish priest due to romans in the temple during passover

This was witnessed by 400,000 poor hard working jews who were already fed up with the oppression to the point of committing suicide by fighting the romans knowing they would be mowed over.

Thats quite the popularity due to one day of a heroic act against the powers that be with almost half a million witnesses.

"truthful statement"s like that chokes out 99.99999% of the mythers there are, and its exactly what scholars all know, mythers dont have a clue about

witnessed by 400,000 [hard-working] jews??

Yet not written about by anybody of the day? not written about by anybody of the time??

Scholars 'know' your alleged 'truth statement'??!!

It would be appropriate for you to provide sources to specific information ...

MrMacSon · 04-25-2012, 09:10 PM

Paul does not document this.

outhouse · 04-25-2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

the jesus story revolves around a poor peasant traveling teacher who went up against the man [the romans] and was fighting the outrageous taxation and the corruption of jewish priest due to romans in the temple during passover

This was witnessed by 400,000 poor hard working jews who were already fed up with the oppression to the point of committing suicide by fighting the romans knowing they would be mowed over.

Thats quite the popularity due to one day of a heroic act against the powers that be with almost half a million witnesses.

"truthful statement"s like that chokes out 99.99999% of the mythers there are, and its exactly what scholars all know, mythers dont have a clue about

witnessed by 400,000 [hard-working] jews??

Yet not written about by anybody of the day? not written about by anybody of the time??

Scholars 'know' your alleged 'truth statement'??!!

It would be appropriate for you to provide sources to specific information ...

Passover had they say 400,000 jews, all there paying temple tax and temple fees and buying livestock for lunch with god. It was the rock concert of the day and a sight to behold that captivated the peasants.

sources? paul and the gospels and josephas

jesus wasnt popular enough to write about until he was glorified in mythology after his death by people who only wrote mythology after years of oral tradition

outhouse · 04-25-2012, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

Paul does not document this.

paul like many hellenistic jews wrote about his deity based on oral tradition.

like many romans, they had a habit of deifing mortal men

Grog · 04-25-2012, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grog

aa will probably beat me to the punch again You are conflating the Jesus of the Gospels with the "historical Jesus," the man who founded Christianity with his teachings.

Here is another problem for the Jesus to Christ hypothesis that Gospel Jesus folks are happy to point out: How do we get from this unimportant failed (possibly suicidal if I am reading this hypothesis correctly--suicide by crucifixion) messiah to a burgeoning movement within 3 years, where Paul is persecuting "the church?" This really is the "impossible faith" that Holding argues for. A Jesus who rose from the dead could inspire such a dramatic growth, but it is a little hard to picture it coming from this obscure, itinerant, apocalyptic preacher/messiah. Don't you think? I don't mean to say that it couldn't have happened, I am asking you to consider the plausibility and then the probability that it happened. Versus the alternative point that there was no historic big bang in 30 AD and that the Jesus story evolved out of motifs already in evidence in Judaism of the first century.

Your failing to realize one important point

the jesus story revolves around a poor peasant traveling teacher who went up against the man [the romans] and was fighting the outrageous taxation and the corruption of jewish priest due to romans in the temple during passover

Where is your source for this?

Quote:

This was witnessed by 400,000 poor hard working jews who were already fed up with the oppression to the point of committing suicide by fighting the romans knowing they would be mowed over.

There were several such martyrs, see Josephus. None of them, except perhaps the least of them, spawned a religion that declared their leader had risen from the dead.

Quote:

Thats quite the popularity due to one day of a heroic act against the powers that be with almost half a million witnesses.

And yet, the failure of contemporaries to note this amazing occurrence is blamed on the very obscurity of this incident.

Quote:

truthful statements like that chokes out 99.99999% of the mythers there are, and its exactly what scholars all know, mythers dont have a clue about

It is conjecture.

Grog · 04-25-2012, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

Paul does not document this.

paul like many hellenistic jews wrote about his deity based on oral tradition.

Oral tradition? Paul allegedly converted within 3 years. He heard the stories directly from eyewitnesses. What oral tradition are you talking about? Let's think about this then. Paul firmly believes in the resurrection, but you are telling me Christianity was founded by a poor peasant who created a ruckus in the temple. Where did Paul learn about the resurrection? Did Peter, James and John tell Paul that Jesus had risen from the dead? Were they lying? Hallucinating (all of them?)? Already, by Paul's time, the main point was that Jesus had conquered death.

Quote:

like many romans, they had a habit of deifing mortal men

They didn't deify a host of would-be messiahs. Why this one?

outhouse · 04-25-2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Where is your source for this?

You will have to be more specific in your question, as different parts have different sources and hypthothesis

Quote:

There were several such martyrs, see Josephus. None of them, except perhaps the least of them, spawned a religion that declared their leader had risen from the dead.

ah but this one had more of a impact then the rest. the rest were not witnessed in from of 400,000 fighting for their cause.

afterwards you would have people saying, well I knew him he taught this, and another well he said that and so on and so.

remember, had paul not stole the religion, it would have remained small and unoticed in history.

But there was a small amount of oral tradition floating around based on a poor peasant jew that was fighting the roman infection, THINK ABOUT IT why would the Saducees send paul to murder apostles if this sect was no danger to their money

outhouse · 04-25-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

And yet, the failure of contemporaries to note this amazing occurrence is blamed on the very obscurity of this incident.

in a sea of illiterate jews, who would write about a jewish trouble maker put to death.

it wasnt important to the romans who could write, just another pain stopped faster then it started.

Quote:

It is conjecture.

so is most of the myther guesses

mountainman · 04-25-2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

the jesus story revolves around a poor peasant traveling teacher who went up against the man [the romans] and was fighting the outrageous taxation and the corruption of jewish priest due to romans in the temple during passover

This was witnessed by 400,000 poor hard working jews who were already fed up with the oppression to the point of committing suicide by fighting the romans knowing they would be mowed over.

Thats quite the popularity due to one day of a heroic act against the powers that be with almost half a million witnesses.

Where are you getting your information from?

Monty Python's "Life of Brian"?

MrMacSon · 04-25-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

the jesus story revolves around a poor peasant traveling teacher who went up against the man [the romans] and was fighting the outrageous taxation and the corruption of jewish priest due to romans in the temple during passover

This was witnessed by 400,000 poor hard working jews who were already fed up with the oppression to the point of committing suicide by fighting the romans knowing they would be mowed over.

Thats quite the popularity due to one day of a heroic act against the powers that be with almost half a million witnesses.

"truthful statement"s like that chokes out 99.99999% of the mythers there are, and its exactly what scholars all know, mythers dont have a clue about

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

witnessed by 400,000 [hard-working] jews??

Yet not written about by anybody of the day? not written about by anybody of the time??

Scholars 'know' your alleged 'truth statement'??!!

It would be appropriate for you to provide sources to specific information ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Passover had they say 400,000 jews, all there paying temple tax and temple fees and buying livestock for lunch with god. It was the rock concert of the day and a sight to behold that captivated the peasants.

sources? paul and the gospels and josephas

jesus wasnt popular enough to write about until he was glorified in mythology after his death by people who only wrote mythology after years of oral tradition

You shoot yourself in the foot when you claim 400,000 witness then say "jesus wasnt popular enough to write about until he was glorified in mythology after his death"

Yes, mythology i.e. fiction!!
.

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04-25-2012, 09:10 PM	#92
MrMacSon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: South Pacific Posts: 559	Paul does not document this.

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