Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sheshbazzar · 02-14-2013, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

That in no way makes θεραπευται a special group. He uses the noun in an ordinary descriptive manner.

And when Philo writes;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philo

(2) but the deliberate intention of the philosopher is at once displayed from the appellation given to them; for with strict regard to etymology, they are called therapeutae and therapeutrides,

Philo uses the word 'therapeutae' here as a common noun, and in an ordinary descriptive manner, But it must ever after be capitalized and be strictly reserved as the official appellation of only one specific special group?

No other group any longer could be called the theraputae?

mountainman · 02-14-2013, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

When Julian refers to "those of you who have strayed from the truth" he is referring to the Christians as a specific group even though he knows that they fight amongst themselves and are highly schismatic.

So when Julian refers to "worshipers of the gods" and "those who worship the gods I think he's referring to the [remnants of the] "pagan church" as a group, even though he knows they are a milieu, and that led by Asclepius.

Julian painted quite a harsh contrast between the diseased Christian church and the therapeutic pagan church.

As I pointed out, θεραπευται itself does not have any special indication. It's just a common noun, much like the word "woman" is in "his woman left him." The context tells you something about the implications of "woman", ie it refers to a female adult in a special, probably sexual, relationship with him, though this notion is not entailed in the noun "woman" at all. Those people who attend the gods duly and righteously are obviously acceptable to Julian, while the Galileans aren't. That in no way makes θεραπευται a special group. He uses the noun in an ordinary descriptive manner. You get the added meaning from the context. Julian refers to christians and "worshipers of the gods" as distinct notions--the latter acceptable, the former not. That acceptability is not a function of being θεραπευται, but because they act in a due and righteous manner, as he explains. One can be a θεραπευτης of the Jewish god.

Can one be a θεραπευτης of the Christian god?

Quote:

When you start going overboard about a "pagan church", you are succumbing to crass lack of understanding of what you can meaningfully say. You go from possibly interested searcher for clarification to purveyor of inanities.

I made qualified statements about a "pagan church milieu".

It's no secret that the "Sacred Assembly of Pagan Priests" counselled and advised the Roman Emperors in their role as "Pontifex Maximus".

The last part of the OP involves the term "therapeutic".

This term is not Jewish is it?

Quote:

See also therapeutic

Quote:

ther·a·peu·tic (thr-pytk) also ther·a·peu·ti·cal (-t-kl)
adj.

1. Having or exhibiting healing powers: a therapeutic agent; therapeutic exercises.

2. Of or relating to the medical treatment of a disease or condition.

[New Latin therapeuticus, from Greek therapeutikos, from therapeuts, one who administers, from therapeuein, to serve, administer treatment, from theraps, therap-, attendant; see therapy.]

mountainman · 02-14-2013, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

...

Quote:

... p26
"Philo is another historian who cannot be classified either a Greek or a Jew."

What does AM mean? Was Philo then necessarily "Jewish"?

Here's another of your misquotes.

FFS Toto it was a typo.

At least I read the book.

Quote:

[In fact if you google your quote, there is one hit - your website.]
The actual quote from Momigliano is

"Philo is another historian who cannot be classified either as Greek or as Jew."

The meaning, in context, is clear. Philo was clearly a Jew,
but as a historian, his methods were between Jewish and Greek methods.

You can check the googlebooks version of The Classical Foundations of Modern History By Arnaldo Momigliano.

FWIW many thanks for the clarification.

Sheshbazzar · 02-14-2013, 09:04 AM

Really it appears that Philo's cult did not have any actual name, using the common noun 'theraputae' to refer to them would have about the level of significance as referring to them as the 'doctors' or the 'attendants'.

That's like claiming that because one organization is spoken of as being doctors, the word 'Doctors' must ever thereafter be an exclusive appelation to only one specific organization, and there can no longer be any other doctors in the entire world.

I won't be capitalizing 'therapeutae' anymore.

Toto · 02-14-2013, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

...]

FFS Toto it's a typo.

At least I read the book.

...

You mean "misread." Your typo changes the meaning and makes it seem to support your thesis.

mountainman · 02-14-2013, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Really it appears that Philo's cult did not have any actual name, using the common noun 'theraputae' to refer to them would have about the level of significance as referring to them as the 'doctors' or the 'attendants'.

I won't be capitalizing 'thereaputae' anymore.

The author of "VC" may have been describing the ubiquitous "Worshipers".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

...]

At least I read the book.

...

You mean "misread."

Ha ha. Very funny.

Sheshbazzar · 02-14-2013, 09:24 AM

Quote:

The author of "VC" may have been describing the ubiquitous "Worshipers".

...but don't capitalize it, ....or no one else will ever again be able to use it for any other religious organization.

spin · 02-14-2013, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Can one be a θεραπευτης of the Christian god?

Why not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

I made qualified statements about a "pagan church milieu".

It's no secret that the "Sacred Assembly of Pagan Priests" counselled and advised the Roman Emperors in their role as "Pontifex Maximus".

The last part of the OP involves the term "therapeutic".

This term is not Jewish is it?

Certainly not.

But that doesn't in any way change the fact that those therapeutae referred to by Philo in DVC were Jewish for the obvious reasons I've already stated--notwithstanding aa5784's John Cleese argument style.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

See also therapeutic

That's the modern English usage of the term, irrelevant as it is in this situation. Are you deliberately being gormless?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheshbazzar

Philo uses the word 'therapeutae' here as a common noun, and in an ordinary descriptive manner, But it must ever after be capitalized and be strictly reserved as the official appellation of only one specific special group?

Have I capitalized it?

- 2.

Sheshbazzar · 02-14-2013, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

But that doesn't in any way change the fact that those therapeutae referred to by Philo in DVC were Jewish for the obvious reasons I've already stated--

It's been a very long thread, would you briefly enumerate those obvious reasons again. please?

(I have outside appointments, so will be unable to respond for several hours.)

spin · 02-14-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

But that doesn't in any way change the fact that those therapeutae referred to by Philo in DVC were Jewish for the obvious reasons I've already stated--

It's been a very long thread, would you briefly enumerate those obvious reasons again. please?

Philo indicates that they are in fact Jewish and accept very Jewish notions of Philo's god, the prophets, the escape from Egypt across the Red Sea, Moses and Miriam, singing "hymns of thanksgiving to God the Saviour, Moses the prophet leading the men, and Miriam the prophetess leading the women" (DVC 87), "being citizens of heaven and of the world, and very acceptable to the Father and Creator of the universe because of their virtue" (90).

- 0.

:wave:

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-14-2013, 09:04 AM	#994
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Really it appears that Philo's cult did not have any actual name, using the common noun 'theraputae' to refer to them would have about the level of significance as referring to them as the 'doctors' or the 'attendants'. That's like claiming that because one organization is spoken of as being doctors, the word 'Doctors' must ever thereafter be an exclusive appelation to only one specific organization, and there can no longer be any other doctors in the entire world. I won't be capitalizing 'therapeutae' anymore.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.