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Old 06-23-2012, 06:13 PM   #31
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Neil Godfrey and I figured this out several years ago. The major Markan miracles are literary prefigurings of the Resurrection and Rising. The paralytic is representation of Jesus being lowered into the Tomb (house), which He will shortly Rise (walk) out from.
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Old 06-23-2012, 07:45 PM   #32
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But only evangelicals think that Jesus raised himself
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:17 PM   #33
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I tend to agree with Logical.

This is a "faith will be rewarded" motif. In these little stories, someone does something that is ordinarily considered wrong, but because they did it out of the good motive of being faithful, they are rewarded.

The story probably originally referred to Exodus 2:22: "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;

The medieval Jewish scholar Maimonides notes, "[The license to kill] applies to a thief caught breaking in or one caught on a person’s roof, courtyard or enclosed area, whether during the day or during the night . ."

It is like the Abraham sacrificing Isaac story. Ordinarily sacrificing your son is a crime. However if you do it to show your faith or trust, it is not a crime and should be rewarded.

In this case, entering someone's house through the roof is ordinarily a criminal action. Instead of having the men arrested as we would expect, Jesus takes it as an act done in good faith and heals the man.

We get the same motif in this story in Mattthew:

Quote:
8.6 and saying, "Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, in terrible distress." 8.7 And he said to him, "I will come and heal him." 8.8 But the centurion answered him, "Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. 8.9 For I am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes, and to another, 'Come,' and he comes, and to my slave, 'Do this,' and he does it." 8.10 When Jesus heard him, he marveled, and said to those who followed him, "Truly, I say to you, not even in Israel have I found such faith. 8.11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, 8.12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth." 8.13 And to the centurion Jesus said, "Go; be it done for you as you have believed." And the servant was healed at that very moment.
Basically, the soldier is saying that he is a bully and therefore he's not worthy to have Jesus come into his house to heal his servant (lover originally?). Jesus takes this as a sign of his faith and does the healing as a reward.

One would suspect that in an earlier version of the story, Jesus just went into the house of the Roman and healed. Jews would criticize Jesus for entering the house of an oppressor. Matthew invents the little speech to explain why Jesus did it - to help a person of faith regardless that he was a Roman and also to make the correction that Jewish didn't actually enter the house.

The motif is also in this tale:

Quote:
9.19 And Jesus rose and followed him, with his disciples. 9.20 And behold, a woman who had suffered from a hemorrhage for twelve years came up behind him and touched the fringe of his garment; 9.21 for she said to herself, "If I only touch his garment, I shall be made well." 9.22 Jesus turned, and seeing her he said, "Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well." And instantly the woman was made well.
A strange woman touching a man's garment would normally be considered wrong. Because she did it out of faith, Jesus healed the woman. Originally, the story probably had the woman grabbing Jesus' crotch. This is ordinarily forbidden by Jewish law:

In Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Quote:
“If two men are having a fight and the wife of one tries to help her husband by grabbing hold of the other man’s genitals, show her no mercy; cut off her hand.
Similarly in Luke we read:

Quote:
7.44 Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house, you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 7.45 You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. 7.46 You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. 7.47 Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little." 7.48 And he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." 7.49 Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this, who even forgives sins?" 7.50 And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
We can easily reconstruct the original story where Mary evidently performed fellatio on Jesus in exchange for an expensive jar of ointment/perfume that Jesus gave to her. The apostles were upset that she had cheated Jesus. However Jesus lets her have the expensive ointment as she showed faith by performing the act first before charging him.

Another faith motif story is in Mark 10:

Quote:
10.46And they came to Jericho; and as he was leaving Jericho with his disciples and a great multitude, Bartimae'us, a blind beggar, the son of Timae'us, was sitting by the roadside. 10.47And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!" 10.48And many rebuked him, telling him to be silent; but he cried out all the more, "Son of David, have mercy on me!" 10.49And Jesus stopped and said, "Call him." And they called the blind man, saying to him, "Take heart; rise, he is calling you." 10.50And throwing off his mantle he sprang up and came to Jesus. 10.51And Jesus said to him, "What do you want me to do for you?" And the blind man said to him, "Master, let me receive my sight." 10.52And Jesus said to him, "Go your way; your faith has made you well." And immediately he received his sight and followed him on the way.
The blindman throwing off his mantle (clothes?) is probably a clue that the original story was quite different, exactly how is difficult to say.

Finally, there is this tale in Luke:
Quote:
17.11 On the way to Jerusalem he was passing along between Sama'ria and Galilee. 17.12 And as he entered a village, he was met by ten lepers, who stood at a distance 17.13 and lifted up their voices and said, "Jesus, Master, have mercy on us." 17.14 When he saw them he said to them, "Go and show yourselves to the priests." And as they went they were cleansed. 17.15 Then one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, praising God with a loud voice; 17.16 and he fell on his face at Jesus' feet, giving him thanks. Now he was a Samaritan. 17.17 Then said Jesus, "Were not ten cleansed? Where are the nine? 17.18 Was no one found to return and give praise to God except this foreigner?" 17.19 And he said to him, "Rise and go your way; your faith has made you well."
The story is botched in this telling. Clearly, in an earlier version, Jesus just told the ten Lepers to go the Jewish Rabbis to be healed. Only the Samaritan thanked Jesus. Therefore Jesus only healed the Samaritan who showed his faith in Jesus by thanking him. Luke, who wasn't interested in the difference between faithful Samaritans and unfaithful Jews, just decided to increase the miracle powers of Jewish by having him heal all ten lepers instead of the faithful one. In so doing he destroyed the moral of the story.

Again, the underlying moral of all these miracle stories is that even criminals and criminal actions are forgiven if you have faith in your religious leaders.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin



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Originally Posted by Logical View Post
aa: The issue raised by the OP has nothing to do with the historicity of the gMark account. Even if it's not history, the question stands regarding the significance of the details of the story.

Regarding the OP itself: I don't see the mystery. This seems like a story with a little bit of comedic imagery injected in it, and the moral of the story is that Jesus rewards those who don't give up on seeking him and believing in him despite the circumstances.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:25 PM   #34
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The closest I can get to the passage in Clement (Paed 1.6.4)

But the good Instructor, the Wisdom, the Word of the Father, who made man, cares for the whole nature of His creature; the all-sufficient Physician of humanity, the Saviour, heals both body and soul. "Rise up," He said to the paralytic; "take the bed on which thou liest, and go away home;" and straightway the infirm man received strength. And to the dead He said, "Lazarus, go forth;" and the dead man issued from his coffin such as he was ere he died, having undergone resurrection. Further, He heals the soul itself by precepts and gifts--by precepts indeed, in course of time, but being liberal in His gifts, He says to us sinners, "Thy sins be forgiven thee."

Ὁ σωτὴρ ἀνάστα, φησὶ τῷ παρειμένῳ, τὸν σκίμποδα ἐφ' ὃν κατάκεισαι λαβὼν ἄπιθι οἴκαδε

---------"Rise up," He said to the paralytic; "take the bed on which thou liest, and go away home;"

It is crazy how different ALL of Clement's passages are here (even the Lazarus reference) to the canonical gospels.

Matthew 9:6 τότε λέγει τῷ παραλυτικῷ Ἔγειρε ἀρόν σου την κλίνην καὶ ὕπαγε εἰς τὸν οἶκον σου

Mark 2:11 Σοὶ λέγω, ἔγειρε καὶ ἆρον τὸν κράβαττόν σου καὶ ὕπαγε εἰς τὸν οἶκόν σου.

Luke 5:24 σοὶ λέγω, ἔγειρε καὶ ἄρας τὸ κλινίδιον σου πορεύου εἰς τὸν οἶκον σου.

Clement's word for bed is σκίμποδα. There is something fishy here. I would have to suppose that the three canonical gospels have been made to appear to be identical because something about the original story was problematic for the faith.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:53 PM   #35
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The Greek Church devotes the fourth Sunday of Passover to the narrative - Τὸ ῥῆµα Χριστοῦ σφίγµα τῷ παρειµένῳ (The word of the Christ was a brace for the Paralytic)
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:07 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
As seen so frequently, Mark 2:1-12 is simply richer with details than the parallel accounts, copying more from the original text.
In what other stories of the triple tradition do you find Mark's account "richer with details" than the Matthean/Lukan parallels ? Off the top of my head, I can't seem to recall another instance where both Matthew and Luke stripped down Mark's account rather than modified it with, or added to it, their own material.

Best,
Jiri
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:51 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Solo View Post

Interestingly, the method of delivering the patient to Jesus (and the oppressive crowd) are excised in Matthew (9:1-7) and Luke (5:17-26). Any ideas what the Markan setup signified and why it did not make by the reformers of his gospel ?

Best,
Jiri
It suggests that the way through the world to salvation is difficult; it takes effort.

The roof setup is in Luke. Matthew probably thought it reflected badly on Jesus making the paralyzed man come to him.

Quote:
18 Some men came carrying a paralyzed man on a mat and tried to take him into the house to lay him before Jesus. 19 When they could not find a way to do this because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and lowered him on his mat through the tiles into the middle of the crowd, right in front of Jesus.
I think Jay's point about the action being wrong in an everyday sense is a good one; morality comes from God, not from rules.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
As seen so frequently, Mark 2:1-12 is simply richer with details than the parallel accounts, copying more from the original text.
In what other stories of the triple tradition do you find Mark's account "richer with details" than the Matthean/Lukan parallels ? Off the top of my head, I can't seem to recall another instance where both Matthew and Luke stripped down Mark's account rather than modified it with, or added to it, their own material.

Best,
Jiri
I meant that Matthew routinely abreviates, not Luke. As I explained in my Post #15 about Luke, he got his account from Twelve-Source (an expanded Q). So what he saw he condensed while translating or (more likely) it had already been condensed when translated into Proto-Luke. Though Luke copied some material from gMark (and thus discernable by close verbal parallelism), it did not include this.
See my (third) article in Noesis (but disregard the first paragraph under "Matthew")
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:24 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
The Greek Church devotes the fourth Sunday of Passover to the narrative - Τὸ ῥῆµα Χριστοῦ σφίγµα τῷ παρειµένῳ (The word of the Christ was a brace for the Paralytic)
And they are not even evangelicals.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:32 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
Here is Tertullian's reference to Jesus eating at Zacchaeus's house:

and this he was even then doing when he brought the Lord into his house and gave him to eat (Against Marcion 4.36)

The passage:

When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”

8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

It's curious don't you think? Why does Jesus have to stay at his house other than the editor wanting to prove Jesus could go over to someone's house?
To show that even the greediest cheats can redeem themselves by paying back what they have stolen.

Lots of scope, here.
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