show_no_mercy

Where do Christians get this stuff from? Is it actually prophesized about in the OT, or did Christians just make it up to account for Jesus' death?

Diogenes the Cynic

It's not part of any genuine prophecy or expectation from the HB. The Christian attempts to contrive support for a Messianic resurrection (or redemption of sins, for that matter) do so by decontextualizing passages and fragments which have no such connotations in their original context and recontextualizing them as predictions of Jesus (the "Suffering Servant" from Isaiah is a classic example).

Steven Carr

http://www.rzim.org/publications/sli...hp?sliceid=228

Apparently all the Jews at the time of Jesus expected a Messiah who would stay alive until the enemies of Israel were defeated, so that must be what the OT was prophesying.

Rather remarkably,even the disciples of Jesus shared this view, despite 3 years of being taught by the *real* Messiah.

As the article explains 'The disciples had to go through a massive renewal of their thinking in light of Jesus’ resurrection.'

Why they had not gone through a massive renewal of their thinking in light of Jesus teaching, and his clear prophecies of his death and resurrection is a mystery.

TruthCounsellor

There's no question that certain things were not revealed ahead of time, or the enemy would have known it, and would not have participated in it in the way that they did.

1Cor.2
[8] Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

TC

Steven Carr

You mean there are no prophecies about a crucified Messiah in the Old Testament?

Spaz

Looks like it to me. He's basically saying "if they had a prophesy then they wouldn't kill him!" nice cop out.

show_no_mercy

Wow... silly Christians

Not only is there nothing prophesizing the Messiah's death, there's especially nothing prophesizing that he would do everything that he's supposed to do in 2 tries. Which is probably the most important of all, considering that it's 2000 years in the making

Harry Bosch

That surprises me! I would have thought that God would have had a bit more power than simple deception! That sounds like something that a mere mortal would resort to!

TruthCounsellor

No, that's not what I said. I simply meant that "not all the details" concerning his death and resurrection were revealed ahead of time.

TC

Diogenes the Cynic

By "not all the details," don't you mean "nothing whatsoever?"

Can you name a single verse in the Hebrew Bible that predicts either the death or the resurrection of the Messiah?