Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Primer Mi Carucha · 01-05-2006, 05:31 AM

1 Corinthians 15:41
"There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory."

Amazing. The Bible recognised the differences in glory between stars thousands of years before scientists did using modern technology.

Sarpedon · 01-05-2006, 07:56 AM

Yes, an anyone who looks up at night can tell that some stars are brighter than others. You don't need a friggin book to tell you that.

Barbarian · 01-05-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Evil Guy

Quote:

We have seen estimates of 10^21 stars—which is a lot of stars.[2] (The number of grains of sand on the earth’s seashores is estimated to be 10^25. As scientists discover more stars, wouldn’t it be interesting to discover that these two numbers match?)

could someone explain the point of this to me?

If those numbers were found to be equal, we would have to duck immediately to avoid an incoming "that can't be just a coincidence" claim, possibly followed up by "only a creator could have arranged it this way".

Half-Life · 01-05-2006, 08:44 AM

You guys are looking at these passages like this: "How can I prove these passages wrong?" instead of "Hmmmm, are these right?"

(credit to my private message for this one)

Amaleq13 · 01-05-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

You guys are looking at these passages like this: "How can I prove these passages wrong?" instead of "Hmmmm, are these right?"

The first question does not deny the second but incorporates it so your assertion that the second has been ignored is incorrect. Your actual complaint is that your critics didn't stop at that point and do nothing but try to support the claims. This is simply not a rational approach and it is plainly open to error.

If the claims were right, they could not be shown to be wrong.

In actuality, it is not the passages that have been shown to be wrong but your interpretation of them that has been conclusively established as entirely inadequate to support your OP assertion.

Barbarian · 01-05-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

You guys are looking at these passages like this: "How can I prove these passages wrong?" instead of "Hmmmm, are these right?"

(credit to my private message for this one)

"Hmmm, are these right?" and then what? How do you answer that question? Because I answer it with "How can I prove these passages wrong?" and holding provisorically true those for which I fail to come up with a good way to prove them wrong. Is your version more of the gut-feel varety?

JPD · 01-05-2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

You guys are looking at these passages like this: "How can I prove these passages wrong?" instead of "Hmmmm, are these right?"

(credit to my private message for this one)

Or as in your case "These are right and I'll even read them soon"

steamer · 01-05-2006, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

If the claims were right, they could not be shown to be wrong.

Seems so obvious...yet even after being unable to refute a single thing to the contrary half-life is able to ignore this simle fact. (S)he has remarkable powers of selective observation. I can't help but think that at some level half-life is aware of this selection bias but rushes past the thought whenever it occurs.

pharoah · 01-05-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Matthew 24:30
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 11:9-11
Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.

That website quotes the above two verses as proof that the bible foresaw television! The first one is easily dismissed and actually works against them. It's a relic of the biblical writers belief that heaven was directly above the earth.

The Revelations passage is more interesting. It seems to imply that everyone from all nations would see the two witnesses. How could this possibly happen without television or something similar? One explanation is that the writer was implying that God would supernaturally make everyone see the two witnesses. The burden of proof would be on the apologist to refute this.

However, when you look closely at this passage it does not say that all people from all nations would see the two witnesses. To see what it really says we need to look at Acts 2:

Quote:

5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Notice how there were people from all nations living or travelling in Jerusalem at that time? That's all that the author of Revelations was saying - that were would be a lot of foreigners in Jerusalem who would see the two witnesses. No need to invoke televison or satellite to explain that.

Mountain Man · 01-05-2006, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

You guys are looking at these passages like this: "How can I prove these passages wrong?" instead of "Hmmmm, are these right?"

Now you're catching on. Instead of worshiping every word in the bible, start to question it. But be careful; once you start questioning you'll see that the bible is wrong and your addiction will be over.

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01-05-2006, 05:31 AM	#31
Primer Mi Carucha Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Former Republic of Pangea Posts: 907	1 Corinthians 15:41 "There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory." Amazing. The Bible recognised the differences in glory between stars thousands of years before scientists did using modern technology.

01-05-2006, 07:56 AM	#32
Sarpedon Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota, the least controversial state in the le Posts: 8,446	Yes, an anyone who looks up at night can tell that some stars are brighter than others. You don't need a friggin book to tell you that.

01-05-2006, 08:44 AM	#34
Half-Life Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A place in the Northern Hemisphere of Planet Earth Posts: 1,250	You guys are looking at these passages like this: "How can I prove these passages wrong?" instead of "Hmmmm, are these right?" (credit to my private message for this one)

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