Doug Shaver

But does that actually keep anyone from going to hell? Most evangelical Christians tell me that I'm going to hell even though God raised Jesus from the dead, just because I don't believe God raised Jesus from the dead.

Steven Carr

Well, belief is very important in Christian theology.

Because you don't believe in Jesus's resurrection, you don't partake in God's blessings.

Because you don't believe in Adam's fall, you don't partake in God's curse.

(Note to self - must check that out more thoroughly later)

Doug Shaver

Aha. If I don't believe it happened, the result is the same as if it didn't happen.

I must remember that.

aa5874

So how do you think being struck by lightning was described 2000 years ago, an act of the true God? Christians must have had a lot of converts during thunderstorms. Saul/Paul may have been a convert of such a storm.

aa5874

I was a bit surprised to see that Hippocrates lived 460-377 BCE and had such foresight. This is remarkable, Hippocrates has single handedly destroyed the so-called 'ghost' related miracles of the fabricated Jesus.

Thanks dongiovanni1976x. Very valuable information!!

Clutch

I can't find the source for this quote.

The essay on epilepsy attributed to Hippocrates expresses roughly the attitude of the quote's first sentence. But Hippocrates, or the essay's author in any case, has nothing of the quote's epistemic caution, predictive optimism, or methodological generality.

Maybe the quote is from elsewhere in the corpus attributed to Hippocrates, but, as I say, I can't find it. An essay by Jeffrey Jay Lowder here at II uses the same quote, but attributes it personally to Richard Carrier.

Helpmabob

Hi Sven - There is the perfectly cogent account of the divine and risen Christ. It is your prerogative to believe whatever you feel is right and correct, and appeals to your deepest desires.

Hi Johnny – With respect, you make it abundantly clear that you do not ‘understand the mind of God’ as we, the created being, obviously never properly can.

Hi Doug - The gracious Christ and His resurrection provides wholly and exactly the righteousness that will save people. It is enough for any that will believe.

Johnny Skeptic

If a man had four children, and if they were drowning, and if he refused to do everything that he could to save all of them, would you attempt to justify his actions by saying that no one understood his motives? Exodus 4:11 says "And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord?" Is it your position that such behavior is just fine because we don't understand it?

God refuses to clearly reveal himself to everyone, so he couldn't possibly love everyone. That alone is sufficient reason for rational minded and fair minded people to reject him. Favoritism and love are contradictory terms, especially when God refuses to discuss his reasons for playing favorities.

The Bible is words, but love is about much more than just words. It is also about deeds. God could easily increase the number of Christians by providing a lot more evidence than he has provided, proving that some people have rejected Christianity only because of insufficient evidence, but his apathy and lack of concern betray his true nature.

God could not possibly have anything to lose by clearly revealing himself to everyone, and mankind would have much to gain.

Is it your position that God is not under any obligation now or ever to explain his actions?

Doug Shaver

So, his death and resurrection were not sufficient if I don't believe?

Diogenes the Cynic

Why should anyone be expected to believe without proof? How is anyone supposed to know the truth without guessing? If the ones who are saved are simply those who are able to guess without evidence which religion out of an infinite number of possibilities (all with the exact same amount of evidence...none) is the "true" one, then how is that any different than God demanding that people guess what number he's thinking of between 1 and infinity?

What was the point of the crucifixion, by the way. If God wanted to save everybody from himself, why couldn't he just DECIDE not to punish them. Why does he need a mechanism to stop himself from doing something he doesn't want to do?