BadBadBad

These are other possibilities a Christian who believes in the supernatural must consider as possibilities. You're saying there are only two possibilities, insanity and demon possession. These two possibilities are just as likely based upon evidence as demon possession. I agree that insanity is the more likely cause in that there is no evidence of either God or demons.

Let me ask you this. Do you believe that you should limit your direct and interactive personal relationship with God based upon your interpretation of other men's 2000 year old interpretation of God? If it's a direct and interactive relationship with God in the first person, why should a Christian need to rely on the Bible to determine whether it is in fact a direct interaction of God?

You admitted that with the Abraham story there is a biblical basis for God asking you to murder your child as a test. You deny that God would ever command you to actually do it. My item 2 suggests that perhaps her initial signs were indeed a test from God. However, her faith was perhaps not strong enough and she resisted God's will. Perhaps her weakness in faith was an opening for Satan. You accept she could have been demon possessed and insane, but you haven't ruled out as a Christian that God was directly involved in this murder.

Before you respond, of course this doesn't make any sense. Once you start heading into the domain of demons, Gods, and the supernatural, you've stepped out of the bounds of common sense or any kind of sense. You can't just look to the Bible to define this supernatural world and omnipotent God. There are an infinite number of possibilities and you can't rule them out based upon the finite information available to you in the Bible.

Why do I believe people can't be possessed by demons? I don't believe that. I believe that there is no evidence that people have ever been possessed by demons and that there is no evidence, at all, that demons exist.

And a number of folks have pointed out that the Bible doesn't limit an infinite and omnipotent God. There are an infinite number of other possibilities and you only allow for two. The authors of the Bible couldn't have perfectly understood God or his plan, and they couldn't have perfectly defined and documented God's plan. All I'm saying is that the Christian can't rule out any potential action by God.


The Bible never says Jephthah was foolish. Jephthah was doing God's work murdering the Ammonites at the hand of God. It never differentiates between that and murdering his daughter as a burnt offering for the sweet savour of God to keep his promise to God. This story doesn't say in any way that Jephthah was doing what he saw fit, it says he was doing as God saw fit. Whether God thought it was a foolish promise or not we'll never know. Both Jephthah and his daughter believed that once the promise was made, they were both bound by religious teachings at that time to carry out their end of the deal.

BadBadBad

You have direct guidance by the Holy Spirit and you have your interpretation of the Scriptures. Of course you believe your interpretation of the scriptures is also guided by the Holy spirit. So you're saying be guided by the Holy Spirit directly and be guided by the Holy spirit in your interpretation of the scriptures. When there's a conflict between the two, you be the judge of where the Holy Spirit's guidance has let you down and where your own insanity or Satan has taken over. I'm just asking you what is the basis for judging for yourself, and since you don't have the benefit of really knowing anything about the nature of the supposed direct Holy Spirit influence on Laney, how can you judge?

OK, I assert your concept of God, demons and the supernatural don't make anysense. So, I guess I won't respond to any of your further posts, and I proclaim myself the winner of this debate. Unfortunately, that doesn't leave much of a discussion.

Starboy

LP675, I'm no bible expert but I'll bet that there are several other quotations in the bible that contradict this one. Even so, as a formula for determining if the magic is there it is a failure. There is no way to know what is good since only god can be the judge of that. It is also like the secret to making money on the stock market, "buy low and sell high". There is no way to know what is low and what is high until after the fact. However after the fact everyone is a perfect prophet and their prophecies will be correct even if the bible is complete nonsense and there is no god.

Starboy

LP675

No we aren’t talking about nebulous ‘such things’(things you think are nasty). Others have said ‘how do Christians decide that THIS command to kill her own children was not from God, especially in the light of the Abraham story (which is relevant because we have a parent commanded to kill their own child )’. I have said this is not a fair analogy because God has never actually required anyone to kill their own child, and he didn’t actually allow Abraham to carry it out. But your examples of rules in warfare and so forth are not examples of God commanding a parent to kill their own child, so I can’t see how they are relevant.

I have answered this question many times now. Ask “does this command contradict teachings of scripture?�. I have shown it does, and no body has debated me on that point. Even if we had 10 examples in the bible of God commanding people to kill their own young offspring, and approved their actions when they did it (and of course there is in fact not a single example), a Christian could determine THIS command was not from God because it contradicts end times teachings.

LP675

Who said ‘there is no way to know what is good since only God can be the judge of that’? I think there are ways to know ‘what is good’, as I have already stated.

LP675

Sorry, it’s just that you consistently say ridiculous things, and seem to not actually read what I write. For example in this post:
I have never said the Holy Spirits guidance via the scriptures and guidance apart from the scriptures will ever conflict. So I am struggling to come to terms with why you would direct this post at me. Is it meant to be a summary of my position, or some sort of attack?
I have repeatedly explained the ways a Christian can determine whether the claims of someone else are really a command of God or not. ‘How I can judge’, as I have explained a number of times, is to compare her claims with scriptural teachings, and relying of Gods direction.

There may be times when examining scripture isn’t conclusive (for example if the topic or subject matter of the command is not covered explicitly in Scripture), in which case guidance via the Holy Spirit is necessary.

I’m sorry if I am being a bit short with you and others, but its crunch time at uni.

LP

BadBadBad

Every post you make defending God is ridiculous, and you're not addressing the points we've made.

Many Christians claim their interpretation of the Bible is correct because the holy spirit guides them to believe it's correct. It's a fair question to ask you as to how a Christian could correllate holy spirit guidance to understand the scriptures as compared to the holy spirit guiding through voices in their head.

Of course you believe the two would never be in conflict. However, you have presupposed the possibility of a wily demon. He's directly influencing the person's brain, and the person's interpretation of the Bible. The question still stands, how should Laney have been able to tell the difference?

You can repeat your claims all you want. They don't address the points that have been made.

For example it might not be conclusive if you have a little devil sitting on your shoulder whispering in your ear. Where is that Holy Spirit when you need him? Even if he did show up, how would the Christian tell the difference between God and the devil?

Starboy

So let me get this strait. A very finite being in time, space and ability pretends to know the mind of god?

Starboy

BadBadBad

This is one of your ridiculous statements defending God. In what way does man's pitiful understanding of God written down in scripture limit an omnipotent God?

LP675

I believe the scriptures are inspired by God, or “God Breathed�. I also believe God does not lie. Therefore if God says “I will do X, and refrain from doing Y�, then a Christian knows God will do X and will not do Y. So if someone claims “God told me he was going to do Y, and said He will not do X�, the Christian knows that because scripture is inspired, and God is not a liar, that the persons claims are false and God has not said what they claim He has said.

Scripture limits an omnipotent God in the sense that because God will not lie, and the scriptures are Gods word to mankind, God will never behave in a way that is contrary to scripture.