Tuffa Nuff

Are you sure?

simongc

Hi Tuffa Nuff - good post

braces_for_impact

Cue Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler in 3...2...1...

dog-on

To the OP...

God has no scientific knowledge, he simply uses magic.

Roger Pearse

From Augustine, De genesi ad litteram (On the literal meaning of Genesis), book 2, chapter 9, written ca. 415 AD:

It is frequently asked what our belief must be about the form and shape of heaven according to Sacred Scripture.

Many scholars engaged in lengthy discussions on these matter, but the sacred writers with their deeper wisdom have omitted them. Such subjects are of no profit for those who seek beatitude, and, what is worse, they take up precious time that ought to be given to what is spiritually beneficial. What concern is it of mine whether heaven is a sphere and the earth is enclosed by it and suspended in the middle of the universe, or whether heaven like a disk above the earth covers it on one side?

But the credibility of Scripture is at stake, and as I have indicated more than once, there is danger that a man uninstructed in divine revelation, discovering something in Scripture or hearing from it something that seems to be at variance with the knowledge that he has acquired, may resolutely withhold his assent in other matters where Scripture presents useful admonitions, narratives, or declarations. Hence, I must say briefly that in the matter of the shape of heaven the sacred writers knew the truth, but that the Spirit of God, who spoke through them, did not wish to teach men these facts that would be of no avail to their salvation.

Obviously one could quote any number of modern writers, but I thought that a quotation from an ancient Father would indicate that the views given were not merely made up in response to Darwin or whoever.

Incidentally in the days when I was an active scientist, we used to say that if something couldn't be expressed in English but only in complex mathematics, it usually meant that the subject wasn't properly understood. (Not actually invariably true, but often a good rule of thumb).

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Question

When one doesn't know the answer its always easier to blame god for your lack of knowledge.

I will say one thing, that the writers of that time did have an active imagination....

Roger Pearse

I'm not sure that you quite followed what Augustine said, tho.

His point was that the bible wasn't a science textbook, and that, although the writers of the bible were not ignorant men by the standards of their day, to include such things would have distracted from the purpose of the book.

If on the other hand we are complaining that people living in 100AD did not have the same advantages of a technical education as are available to those wise enough to be born in 1870, then we might reflect that those born in 1970 could say the same about those born in 1870, and those born in 2070 about those born in 1970. Chronological snobbery makes very little rational sense.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Question

Do you think they actually knew the answer?

I did get the just of his point but I was coming at it from a different angle. If you were given the task of writing a book that had to be used as a life code for the next 2000 years, what things would you put into it. Remember this is supposed to be the word of an all knowing god.. And you knew it would questioned by each generation, wouldn't putting in some hard facts give the reader a comfort level to the authority of the author?

I agree with you that old books have little relevance today. We can learn from history but it must be adapted to the facts of today. With todays rapidly changing technology and attitudes a 10 year old book seems outdated.

Regards

Roger Pearse

I'm not sure how many educated people would share the view that "old books have little relevance today". Didn't the modern world come into existence precisely by the rediscovery of the "old books" written in antiquity at the renaissance?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

dog-on

Yup, that and the demise of the power of the church during the enlightenment. :wave: