Originally Posted by rhutchin

Timing is the issue here. Given the physical events cited and reference to the "preparation," the discussion between Jesus and His disciples must have taken place after 6:00 pm on Thursday when it was still daylight.

Because of the reference by both John and the synoptics to the "preparation," we must conclude that they know that the pascal lamb was to be sacrificed on Friday afternoon.

The only real issue is to explain how Jesus can eat the passover with His disciples on Thursday evening and John can write that this occurred before the Feast of the Passover (and before the pascal lamb was actually slain as the synoptics confirm). Was Jesus wrong to think that He could eat the passover with His disciples on Thursday night? Was John wrong to think that the Feast of the Passover would occur later and to describe how the Jews would not enter the Judgment Hall so that they could eat the passover?

The synoptics clearly refer to the "preparation" as John does so they clearly state that the pascal lamb is not slain until after Thursday evening. The synoptics also clearly state that Jesus ate the passover with His disciples on Thursday evening.

What we find is not contradiction but the absence of information that we need to determine what has happened. The synoptics have no problem telling us that Jesus ate the Passover with His disciples on Thursday evening (the beginning of the first day of Passover) and then stating that this was the day of preparation when the pascal lamb would be sacrificed at the end of the first day of Passover. What they do not tell us is the rationale for Jesus and the disciples to be eating a "Passover" meal on Thursday night when the Jews would be eating it later on Friday. We may be confused about all this, but John and the synoptics are not confused and their accounts agree on the events that occurred.

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

I will attempt this one last time, then I am going to stop beating the horse. According to Mark, the disciples went to prepare a room to eat the passover on the first day of unleavened bread. It also implies that it is the same day when they killed the passover. The lambs would be slaughtered before 6:00 pm on the 14 Nisan; they would have been eaten after 6:00 pm which would now be 15 Nisan. However, Mark was written by a gentile. To him, the afternoon of 14 Nisan and early evening of 15 Nisan would be the same day, which is probably why he writes: And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

To Mark, the slaughter of the lambs and the first feast of unleavened bread are the same day (reckoning days from midnight to midnight). Regardless, the first day of unleavened bread is on 15 Nisan. The Synoptics thus place Jesus crucifixion on 15 Nisan. John clearly puts it on 14 Nisan. This is the contradiction spoken of by Bart D. Ehrman in at least two of his books.

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

What I assume, when I read the Bible, is that the men who wrote the original documents, and the editors who worked on those documents, and the redactors who produced the versions of those documents that we now possess, were all just ordinary human beings, with the same abilities we all have but only those abilities, subject to the same faults and shortcomings that afflict us all, and no less influenced by their cultures than we all are influence by our own culture.

Can you suggest any reason why I should assume anything more than that about them?

Originally Posted by rhutchin

How about if you ignore any assumptions about the men who wrote the Bible (as they are, for the most part, irrelevant), assumptions about editors and redactors, and just deal with what the Bible says.

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Mark still says, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, [Joseph sought to obtain the body of Jesus] (Mark 15:42) Here Mark identifies the "preparation" as the day before the sabbath making it Friday. The preparation refers to the ritual sacrifice of the pascal lamb. So, even if Mark is using a different time scheme, he still has the supper on Thursday night and the sacrifice of the pascal lamb on Friday.

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Do you know how Erhman handles this?

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

The verse is your answer. The preparation day spoken of in Mark 15:42 is the preparation for the sabbath and not passover. The 'preparation day' here does not refer to the slaughter of the lambs. You are trying to conflate the two different days. The first night of unleavened bread begins after the lambs are slaughtered. No two ways about it, the Synoptics and 'John' do not agree.

Originally Posted by Analyst

And stone my children to death and keep slaves and wear only wool or linen and follow all of the other thousands of silly rules? Why?

Originally Posted by rhutchin

John says, And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour:... (John 19:14) which is pretty clear that the preparation related to the Passover and not the Sabbath. Preparation of the Passover would have been understood to be preparation of the passover lamb to be sacrificed and this occurred on the day before the Sabbath.

Originally Posted by rhutchin

How about if you ignore any assumptions about the men who wrote the Bible (as they are, for the most part, irrelevant)

Originally Posted by rhutchin

just deal with what the Bible says.