Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Keith&Co. · 04-06-2009, 09:21 AM

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Originally Posted by funinspace

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Originally Posted by Free Indeed

The Hebrew Bible reports that everyone conjugated in Shinar or Mesopotamia after the flood and spoke one language.

Good grief, it would be nice if you knew your own Bible

Nothing in the below verses states that all the humans were now in Shinar. In fact it strongly suggests the opposite.

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Ge 10: 4 The descendants of Javan: Elishah, Tarshish, the Kittim, and the Rodanim.
5 These are the descendants of Japheth, and from them sprang the maritime nations, in their respective lands--each with its own language--by their clans within their nations.

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Gen 11: 1 The whole world spoke the same language, using the same words.
2 While men were migrating in the east, they came upon a valley in the land of Shinar and settled there.

Now, now, now. Free's a literalist Christain, so obviously he can't use all the bible verses. Just the ones that say what he wants to say, or can be shoe-horned into what he wants to say. If they all spoke their own language and then they all spoke the same language, then they builded a pyramid to scratch the sky, then that's the way it was, by golly gee.

Maybe by 'their own language' they meant that everyone had the same language, but called it by their own tribe? Like speaking English and American and Californian and Floridian? Oh, but it says that they used the same words to mean the same thing. My friend, who asked an Australian to hand him a fanny pack learned that this isn't quite the case with English Speaking nations.

Keith&Co. · 04-06-2009, 09:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Free Indeed

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Originally Posted by Keith&Co.

I just remembered, doesn't Hovind say that Adam built the pyramids?
I guess it's a good thing that Free Indeed isn't a Hovind-phile.

Would you believe that Adam could do that?

Sure. Adam named all the animals. He broke the first law on the planet. He had the first sex on the planet. I firmly believe Adam is just as capable of hand-crafting the pyramids as Superman, Bugs Bunny and DDLMTDIMFP.

funinspace · 04-06-2009, 09:26 AM

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Originally Posted by Free Indeed

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Originally Posted by funinspace

It could explain it if you lived in the land of Oz. Otherwise its BS. Your YEC fantasy simply breaks down because there is not enough time for all the history we know, after your 2100-2400BCE flood (the date depends on when one dates the Exodus). Now in Ge 11, it doesn't really tell us when this "confusion of languages" purportedly happened. However, I think it would be safe to say that since only the Cush's (1 of Noah's grandsons) descendents went to the land of Shinar, that it would be at least 200 years after the Deluge. And I think that is really still being too generous. So this would put it between 1900-2200BCE. Now you have to build up 2 civilizations that have eons of history, and somehow squeeze 1,000 years of written history into time where there are already a dozen other kingdoms with their own written history that is now cross referenced against other empires. Now that would take a real miracle to make history LIE.

You see, by the time of you Babel event, the Akkadians were over running the Sumerian civilization, and putting it under their heal. Ironically, Babel actually means "Gate of the gods" in the native language of the place. These ziggurats were part of the temple (religious center) of every major town. There were a quite a few of them, not one. We have many records from them, and know some of the religious functions. And within 200 more years of history Babylonia was emerging. This time period is not in some sort of vacuum, written in a single set of holy writings with no physical evidence, or external written information to support them (you know kind of like the opposite of your fantasy Deluge, Joshua's solar object demands, or Tower of Babel). You again demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge on ancient history and archeology.

According to Ussher, the global flood happened in year 2348 BC, tower of Babel 2242 BC, and Egypt began 2242 BC. I don't see a conflict at this time.

Wow, that really demonstrates the TRUTH :rolling: So a preacher that has been dead for 350 years, knows enough archeology and history to provide real evidence, NOT! You are just spewing out YEC factiods like it means something. This is no better than the joke answer 42. Your dogma drivel adds nothing. So 100 years after the Deluge, there was enough people from just one of Noah's grandsons to have a city and build a tower...care to share some of those mushrooms? You still haven't said anything that would suggest where to stuff a 1,000 years of known history, between other already known history.

funinspace · 04-06-2009, 09:29 AM

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Originally Posted by Free Indeed

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Originally Posted by Imnotspecial

The story of the tower of babel is even more nonsensical than the flood story. So why are we even talking about it?

It's our history.

No, its your fantasy. 2/3s of the world simply are not Christian, and certainly doesn't believe this fairy tale, any more than the Chinese think that the Monkey King is real history in their past. Even among Christians, probably 1/3 don't believe this fairy tale is real.

funinspace · 04-06-2009, 09:32 AM

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Originally Posted by Keith&Co.

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Originally Posted by Free Indeed

God looks at the heart and purposes of man. The Egyptians more than likely weren't trying to reach the sky and see God, it looks like they learned that lesson.

That's God's reaction. I still don't see the logic or anything based on history that would suggest someone who saw God get Angry for building a pyramid at site X would run off to sites y through AC to build ever larger pyramids, but with the RIGHT intentions this time, being to honor gods they invented in the short time between Babel and painting the passages of the pyramids.
I mean, seriously, you're suggesting they remember the tower but not the big pissed off skybeast in the clouds, and decided to invent Osiris, Isis, Ptah, Set...

Of course FI, is also miss-representing his faithful Bible, yet again... His bible says they wanted to make a name for themselve. Yeah the Egyptians weren't doing that with their mega Pyramiads, that have lasted far better, and are far larger than the ziggerats. And are just as old.

Ge 11:3 They said to one another, "Come, let us mold bricks and harden them with fire." They used bricks for stone, and bitumen for mortar.
4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the sky, and so make a name for ourselves; otherwise we shall be scattered all over the earth."
5 LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men had built.
6 Then the LORD said: "If now, while they are one people, all speaking the same language, they have started to do this, nothing will later stop them from doing whatever they presume to do.

PS Keith, yeah I saw the different, no wait same languages,around the world confussed verses. I just figured it would be yet another distraction...

Keith&Co. · 04-06-2009, 09:39 AM

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Originally Posted by funinspace

I just figured it would be yet another distraction...

Distraction, contradiction; derail, nail in the coffin; tomato, tomahtow.

funinspace · 04-06-2009, 09:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Keith&Co.

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Originally Posted by funinspace

I just figured it would be yet another distraction...

Distraction, contradiction; derail, nail in the coffin; tomato, tomahtow.

Are you trying to suggest that this tale is nonsensical

Tom Sawyer · 04-06-2009, 10:04 AM

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Originally Posted by Martian Astronomer

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Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Ya, because there's no other explanation as to why people in two different places would both figure out how to build structures that are wider at the bottom than they are at the top. I'm convinced.

Seriously.

Man, to think that I was always taught that the reason that multiple cultures built pyramids had to do with the fact that they used relatively soft, heavy building materials that would crack under their own weight if the structure didn't have a wide base. Boy was I misled...

Well, perhaps your knowledge of structural mechanics relied too greatly on engineering textbooks and too little on Biblical references. I'm sure this incident has taught you a valuable lesson to use in the future.

show_no_mercy · 04-06-2009, 10:07 AM

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Originally Posted by funinspace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith&Co.

That's God's reaction. I still don't see the logic or anything based on history that would suggest someone who saw God get Angry for building a pyramid at site X would run off to sites y through AC to build ever larger pyramids, but with the RIGHT intentions this time, being to honor gods they invented in the short time between Babel and painting the passages of the pyramids.
I mean, seriously, you're suggesting they remember the tower but not the big pissed off skybeast in the clouds, and decided to invent Osiris, Isis, Ptah, Set...

Of course FI, is also miss-representing his faithful Bible, yet again... His bible says they wanted to make a name for themselve. Yeah the Egyptians weren't doing that with their mega Pyramiads, that have lasted far better, and are far larger than the ziggerats. And are just as old.

Ge 11:3 They said to one another, "Come, let us mold bricks and harden them with fire." They used bricks for stone, and bitumen for mortar.
4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the sky, and so make a name for ourselves; otherwise we shall be scattered all over the earth."
5 LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men had built.
6 Then the LORD said: "If now, while they are one people, all speaking the same language, they have started to do this, nothing will later stop them from doing whatever they presume to do.

PS Keith, yeah I saw the different, no wait same languages,around the world confussed verses. I just figured it would be yet another distraction...

Not only that, but somehow they managed to populate China as well. Chinese and Egyptians don't look all that similar to me.

Johnny Skeptic · 04-06-2009, 10:13 AM

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Originally Posted by Free Indeed

This should help explain why there is no written record of a global flood in Egypt. It’s because Egypt wasn’t inhabited until after the flood and tower of Babel.

What flood are you referring to, and what evidence do you have that it occurred?

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