deepthinker

Hello everettf... deepthinkers here

It is hard for me to understand how one can come to a conclusion that there is not God. How do you deny the existence of the Creator, while you are created and surely you have not created yourselves? Also nothingness can not be the Cause of your existence. How do you deny the Cause of your existence? It is like a machine denying the existence of its maker and not obeying his or her commands.

It the universe and what it contains is not enough for any sane individual, proving the existence of the Creator, then there are only two possibilities. First, the individual's mind is not functioning right, which means that the individual's faculty of understanding is shielded by various desires and self interest. The second possibility is that there is a problem of conception. If the individual views God, for example, as a trinity or as a white bearded being located at one of the far planets or stars, then how would one prove the existence of such being!

In reality Atheism (denying the existence of God) grows and flourishes in environments or situations where wrong beliefs are being inherited or adopted. In a society where mysticism, for example, is prevalent and being practiced one would certainly find people reacting properly or improperly to such nonsense, going to various directions like Atheism, Agnosticism or rarely the correct belief and understanding.

At times one hears some Muslims talking about the difficulty to prove the existence of God which is indeed unexpected and saddening. This kind of claim should only come from people following and promoting other belief systems that are not based on understanding and evidence. This is because if such people prove the existence of God logically, they would be unable to continue this process for unproven illogical other aspects, like for example, the trinity or the attributes claimed to be acquired by the so called saints.

Proving the existence of God is so simple to demonstrate and understand. One does not need to have a special experience, study or training. What is needed is simply the life experience of being here surrounded with the universe and its components (including humans and their life supporting systems).

Some people also claim that the belief in God is something internal; that is based on one's internal feelings. Surely the human nature, the built-in nature , is a factor in the individual confirmation of the existence of God, but it is certainly not the only evidence. Furthermore, the human's built-in nature can be covered up with all kinds of whims and desires and thus becomes unable to function property. Therefore, depending on the inner feelings as the sole factor of proving the existence of God is clearly erroneous.

What can be said here is that the uncorrupted built-in nature of the human, resonates happily with the Truth. It resonates greatly with the overwhelming evidence proving the existence of the Creator and describing His unimaginable great attributes.

How come you are unthankful to the One Who endowed you with the bounty of life and what it contains! Who endowed you with the faculties of hearing, seeing and understanding. In fact, humans are completely enveloped by God's favors.

When we see an individual treating his or her mother badly, we become astonished and hate that kind of behavior. Surely our astonishment and hatefulness of such behavior increase when we realize the continuous effort of the mother and the care she provides her child with. The action of such individual is clearly a severe act of ungratefulness. And if this is the case, then what about the One Who created us and our mothers, the One Who provides for us and for our mothers? It becomes then clear that the act of ignoring the favors of Allah (glory be to Him) exceeds all limits of injustice and ungratefulness. Ignoring the favors of the Creator is surely a crime beyond description.

How do you inflate yourselves with false pride, which is the main key of non-believers, knowing that you were dead and will certainly go back to that state? Being aware of your beginning and of your end, and seeing that you have no control over both, you are indeed expected to be humble without having one iota of pride.

How with unlimited number of question marks and exclamation marks. This statement demonstrates how strange and unnatural this act of (disbelief) is, being aware that one did not exist before and thus ignoring the Cause of existence. How would you disbelieve in the One Who gave you life and will cause you to die? And not only that but will give you life again and then calls you for accountability.



There is no proff that God doesnt exists, and never will be. Open your minds, open your heart. God is there and God wont let you down.

fromdownunder

deepthinker, it will take time and effort to respond to your post, and I will need to cross reference it to the main thread from which it came.

If you give me a guarantee that you will provide a full response to what I am willing to prepare and post, I am willing to take the time to do so. please let me know by replying to this response to your post.

Norm

sunspark

deepthinker, all you've said here has been answered, time and again, if only you would open your mind and heart long enough to hear and understand.

In the spirit of reaching out to our fellow man, in the spirit of truth and honesty, I will, nevertheless, respond once more to each point you've brought up. Will it make any difference to you? I don't know.

I don't doubt it. I myself, and many others were once in your position.

In my case, I believed the lies (some purely unintentional) and deceits fed to me regarding Christianity.

I believed in God because I so wanted him to be there, to the extent that I disbelieved evolution without even knowing what it was, and would feel so sorry for those poor atheists who didn't have my hope. How earnestly I talked at my bedroom ceiling, church carpets and beautiful blue skies, if he'd only answer me.

I've lost so much time, energy and love on this non-existent God. Wouldn't it be great if there really was, by definition and existence, an all-good and powerful God? Eradicating all the evils that exist? Protecting us from harm? Unfortunately, no matter how badly we wish otherwise, wanting something to be so, doesn't make it so.

Like many others (I suspect I'm not alone, not at all), if God (definition: an all-good and powerful entity that created us) would just show up, explain things and account for his apparent incompetence/failures and why he has been so misunderstood by pretty much everyone (it's arrogant for the theist to think he's 100% right about everything), I'd convert. Honestly, seriously, no joke, no bullshit.

The problem is: he hasn't, and very likely, he won't. There's no evidence he exists, never mind cares about what does or doesn't happen to us. I am open to the possibility of being wrong about anything, including atheism, but that doesn't mean I'll willingly abandon all reason in the name of a useless emotional crutch to pretend there's a God that isn't there.

Indeed.

I know exactly where I came from: I was conceived as the result of my parents gettin' it on. No real mystery there, that's where all of us came from. If you go back far enough in time, in all of our family trees, you'd find we have common ancestors. Even creationists agree with that. I've yet to meet anyone who thinks God waved his hand and -poof - there they were. Nor have I met anyone who denies this, "the cause of [their] existence".

Go back a little further in our family tree, and we meet the ancestors we share with Chimps, then Gorillas... From the common ancestors that we share, one group went one way and became cute and intelligent Chimps, another group became cute and very intelligent humans.

You cannot compare humans nor any animals to machines.

Whom said this? Any atheist I've ever read or talked with is in awe of the vast, wondrous universe we have, as is the Christian. I would assume the Muslim is the same.

I suspect you refer to the atheist's problem with the inconsistencies of the definition of God. A contradictory - and therefore unsatisfying - definition of God is not something anyone should accept, and has nothing to do with being unsatisfied with all the good there is in the universe.

Even if that were so, that's not "proof" of anything, except that maybe the person in question really has no appreciation for what they do have.

C.S Lewis, eat your heart out.

But seriously, do you really believe there are only two possibilities? How did you come to this conclusion? Based upon evidence or upon your own preconceived notions of God, the universe and human nature? (That's a rhetorical question, something for you to think about, not come up with an answer you think would/would not satisfy me.)

The atheist says, "I'm not convinced there is a god, your definition of one is internally and externally inconsistent, and therefore cannot and does not exist."

Again, how did you come to this conclusion? Based upon evidence or upon your own preconceived notions?

How is mysticism comparable to atheism or agnosticism? they are mutually incompatible. I suspect you're suggesting that they're all just different manifestations of the same "evil", and if that's the case you're dead wrong.

Exactly, deepthinker, exactly. This is what the atheist realizes and accepts. So you see, you do, in fact, understand.

That I really don't follow.

If there was a God, yes, he should be self-evident. He isn't. This is why the atheist cannot accept the assertion that he is.

I agree. Again, if there is a God, he should be self-evident, in everything, not just in "special" or "reserved" places.

It can be and is said by theists, over and over again. That doesn't make it true.

You'd have to know us before you could conclude that every or even most atheists are simply "unthankful".

I love where I came from: my parents. I love my grandparents. I love my whole family, including my very extended family, from fellow humans to other primates to other animals. I always will. I am thankful I'm alive, like many others I'm extremely lucky to be here, to have self-consciousness. I hope to live a long life to continue enjoying all the things I love, cherish and have great passion for. I am grateful and even more so every day I get to continue my short existence.

We all, atheist and theist alike, recognize many things in this universe that we identify as good, things like family, friends and love, baby animals (I love my National Geographic subscription!), art, and so on.

The atheist and honest theists also recognize many things in this universe that we identify as bad, sub-optimal, shoddy and evil. It is because of these things that we cannot accept the assertion that there is a powerful, loving creator. It is another of those self-contradictory aspects that cannot and should not be brushed off or ignored.

I'm assuming that when you say "badly", you refer to treatment we would not do to another person, that which we would not want done to us. In that situation, yes, I would agree. It's bad enough to treat anyone that way, but to do that to one who loves and cares for you is shameful.

Again, you assert there is, in fact, One who provides for us and for our mothers. The atheist acknowledges that everything that we know to be true, from time passed 'til now, shows us there isn't. If there was, if there was ever any evidence that this One exists, we would embrace him, just as you say we should all naturally react to that person.

Oh deepthinker, how little you know any of us. You don't understand, either willingly or unwillingly, so you label and defame us because you don't like the alleged consequences you perceive.

I didn't know I was not alive then, and I won't know it when I return there. I'm not afraid of this, as someone else has said, how can you fear the end of fear?

At present, while I still posses my faculties, yes that does disappoint me, in a way. I won't get to meet my descendants, there will be many good things I will miss out on. For one thing, I'll miss out on the cures and preventions for disease that stalk my family, in the past and now, whom might've otherwise had even more full or longer lives. Some hardly got to live at all.

Here you hold only one view of pride, the very negative, boastful, disdainful one. It is also "pride" to feel good at your accomplishments and the accomplishments of those around you. That is nothing to be ashamed of, that's the essence of how humans enjoy life's greatness.

I am "proud" of my few successes and the lessons I've learned. I am not "proud" in the connotation you unfairly assign me. Whether you believe that or not, I have no idea.

From my perspective, at present you seem to be lashing out at the very truth you think you already have. It's hardly surprising, all of us atheists are breathing, walking, talking contradictions to your worldview.

As I've already mentioned, God hasn't been demonstrated, even in the least, only asserted. God has gone the way of the tooth fairy and santa, an initially cute way to express wonder over things we cannot understand, but in the end a hollow lie.

And so you see, your own "proof", so "simple" to "demonstrate and understand", doesn't even convince you. In the end you have to admit, there's no real reason to think there is a God at all.

He isn't, and because of my believing he was in spite of this, certainly has, time and again, in everything I hold dear and important.

deepthinker

I am extra busy, but since you asked kindly, if you chose to reply I wont leave you hanging.
Just bare with me if I am not online everyday, my timing on the computer is pretty limited.

deepthinker

I just want to say thank you for your words... lucky for you, I have time to reply today! Actually I just liked the calmness in your words so I chose to reply. Bare with me here, I just want to give you my understanding of God, for I know in Christainty you were tought some what differently.

Allah is One, without any partners. He has no sharers in His essence, attributes, actions, or rulings. He is the sole Creator of all that exists, has existed, and will ever exist. Everything other than Him is His creation – that is, a contingent being that came into existence after it did not previously exist.
He alone controls all events, causes, and effects, and no power exists independently of His power. Nothing happens outside of His will, neither before He willed it, nor after He willed it, neither more than what He willed, nor less than what He willed.
There is nothing like Him, and it is impossible to imagine or conceive Him. He is not qualified by the laws of His creation. He is not encompassed by direction or distance. Allah existed as He has always been before the creation of time and space.
He not only created time and space, but He is transcendentally beyond them, such that He cannot be “in” a place, He cannot be “everywhere,” and He cannot be “nowhere.”

Allah is the eternally-existing, necessary first cause. Unlike His creation, which is a possible existent subject to nonbeing, beginning, and ending, Allah has no beginning and He will never perish or come to an end. Scholars have also explained, “Bringing creation into existence did not add anything to His attributes that was not already there.”
He is the Sustainer of everything, directly sustaining every instant of the existence of all things. He alone gives life and He alone gives death, and He will re-create and resurrect living rational beings for judgment and retribution just as He created them the first time. Nothing is difficult for Him.

His omnipotence encompasses all things intrinsically possible. He cannot terminate His own existence, for “the divine nature necessarily entails the divine perfections, of which being is one. It is impossible that Allah could cease to have this perfection or any other, for otherwise He would not be God.”
Similarly, it is impossible for created things to contravene the knowledge or speech of Allah, for by being connected with either of these two divine attributes, it has become contingently necessary for any created thing to conform and submit. His knowledge encompasses all things. It is not subject to change or increase; it is not based on time or chronology. He knew the actions and eternal abodes of all of humanity before its creation, and its actual existence and conformity to Allah’s pre-temporal knowledge neither increased nor benefited Him.

He sees all events and things in a manner wholly unlike our means of seeing things. His sight does not depend on distance, light, and appendages. Likewise, He hears all events and things with a hearing that transcends sound waves, volume, tone, and pitch.
Allah is the source of all benefit and harm. If all of humanity gathered together with the sole intention of benefiting or harming a single person, it would be absolutely powerless to do so save by the will and permission of Allah.

In a similar vein, Allah alone guides to His single, eternal truth, and He likewise leads astray. All good works done by a person are not a consequence of his own knowledge, effort, or piety, but rather they issue from a divinely-bestowed ability that Allah grants to whom He wills.

Can you prove that you exist? Yes, of course you can. You merely use your senses to determine that you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam. We can look to the things that He has created and the way that He cares for things and sustains us, to know that there is no doubt of His existence.

Think about this the next time that you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect that it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not.

And then consider if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.

Can a fast food restaurant operate itself without any people there? That's crazy for anyone to even think about.

After considering all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the molecules in a microscope and then think that all of this came about as a result of a "big bang" or some "accident?"

Part 2) This still doesn’t answer my question,
while you are created and surely you have not created yourselves? Also nothingness can not be the Cause of your existence.
Both

This tells me for sure you were brought up in a Christianity church, who said God is Hiding.

The closeness of Allah to His(servant or worshipper), is that He is very close to His creatures, responding, as He has summed it up in His saying:

It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein. 50:16

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way.
Surah 2 Verse 186

"O son of Adam, I did not create you for my own benefit, but that you benefit from Me as your God, alone, for I am your saviour"

But how can we benefit from Allah? We can benefit from Allah by worshipping him, for if we worship Allah we will be rewarded. This is a reason in its self:

"And I have not created the Jin and man but that they worship Me" Holy Quran 51:57

May I ask you what lead you to disbelieve in God? The main reason you stopped believing?

deepthinker

sunspark

I will leave you with chapter 35 of the Quran, Read it, It will help explain some of your questions. And help you understand my point better.

The Originator (Fátir)

This chapter has 45 verses.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

1. Praise be to Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs): He adds to Creation as He pleases: for Allah has power over all things.

2. What Allah out of His Mercy doth bestow on mankind none can withhold: what He doth withhold, none can grant, apart from Him: and He is the Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom.

3. O men! Remember the grace of Allah unto you! Is there a Creator, other than Allah, to give you sustenance from heaven or earth? There is no god but He: how then are ye perverted?

4. And if they reject thee, so were messengers rejected before thee: to Allah all affairs are returned.

5. O men! Certainly the promise of Allah is true, let not then this present life deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver deceive you about Allah.

6. Verily Satan is an enemy to you: so treat him as an enemy. He only invites his adherents, that they may become Companions of the Blazing Fire.

7. For those who reject Allah, is a terrible chastisement: but for those who believe and work righteous deeds, is Forgiveness, and a magnificent Reward.

8. Is he, then, to whom the evil of his conduct is made alluring, so that he looks upon it as good, (equal to one who is rightly guided)? For Allah leaves to stray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills. So let not thy soul be vested in regret for them: for Allah knows well all that they do!

9. It is Allah Who sends forth the Winds, so that they raise up the Clouds, and We drive them to a land that is dead, and revive the earth therewith after its death: even so (will be) the Resurrection!

10. If any do seek for glory and power,- to Allah belong all glory and power. To Him mount up (all) Words of Purity: It is He Who exalts each Deed of Righteousness. Those that lay Plots of Evil,- for them is a chastisement terrible; and the plotting of such will be void (of result).

11. And Allah did create you from dust; then from a sperm-drop; then He made you in pairs. And no female conceives, or lays down (her load), but with His knowledge. Nor is a man long- lived granted length of days, nor is a part cut off from his life, but is in a Book (ordained). All this is easy to Allah.

12. Nor are the two seas alike,- the one palatable, sweet, and pleasant to drink, and the other, salt and bitter. Yet from each (kind of water) do ye eat flesh fresh and tender, and ye extract ornaments to wear; and thou seest the ships therein that plough the waves, that ye may seek (thus) of the Bounty of Allah that ye may be grateful.

13. He merges Night into Day, and He merges Day into Night, and He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His Law): each one runs its course for a term appointed. Such is Allah your Lord: to Him belongs all Dominion. And those whom ye invoke besides Him have not a straw.

14. If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer your (prayer). On the Day of Judgment they will reject your "Partnership". And none, (O man!) can inform you like Him Who is All-Awake.

15. O ye men! It is ye that have need of Allah. but Allah is the One Free of all wants, worthy of all praise.

16. If He so pleased, He could blot you out and bring in a New Creation.

17. Nor is that (at all) difficult for Allah.

18. Nor can a bearer of burdens bear another's burdens. If one heavily laden should call another to (bear) his load. Not the least portion of it can be carried (by the other). Even though he be nearly related. Thou canst but warn such as fear their Lord unseen and establish regular Prayer. And whoever purifies himself does so for the benefit of his own soul; and the destination (of all) is to Allah.

19. The blind and the seeing are not alike;

20. Nor are the depths of Darkness and the Light;

21. Nor are the (chilly) shade and the (genial) heat of the sun:

22. Nor are alike those that are living and those that are dead. Allah can make any that He wills to hear; but thou canst not make those to hear who are (buried) in graves.

23. Thou art no other than a warner.

24. Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past).

25. And if they reject thee, so did their predecessors, to whom came their messengers with Clear Signs, Scriptures, and the Book illuminating.

26. In the end did I punish those who rejected Faith: and how (terrible) was My punishment!

27. Seest thou not that Allah sends down rain from the sky? With it We then bring out produce of various colors. And in the mountains are tracts white and red, of various shades of color, and black intense in hue.

28. And so amongst men and beasts and cattle, are they of various colors. Those truly fear Allah, among His Servants, who have knowledge: for Allah is Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving.

29. Those who rehearse the Book of Allah, establish regular Prayer, and spend (in Charity) out of what We have provided for them, secretly and openly, hope for a commerce that will never fail:

30. For He will pay them their meed, nay, He will give them (even) more out of His Bounty: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service).

31. That which We have revealed to thee of the Book is the Truth,- confirming what was (revealed) before it: for Allah is assuredly- with respect to His Servants - well acquainted and Fully Observant.

32. Then We have given the Book for inheritance to such of Our servants as We have chosen: but there are among them some who wrong their own souls; some who follow a middle course; and some who are, by Allah's leave, foremost in good deeds; that is the highest Grace.

33. Gardens of Eternity will they enter: therein will they be adorned with bracelets of gold and pearls; and their garments there will be of silk.

34. And they will say: "Praise be to Allah, Who has removed from us (all) sorrow: for our Lord is indeed Oft-Forgiving Ready to appreciate (service):

35. "Who has, out of His Bounty, settled us in a Home that will last: no toil nor sense of weariness shall touch us therein."

36. But those who reject (Allah) - for them will be the Fire of Hell: no term shall be determined for them, so they should die, nor shall its chastisement be lightened for them. Thus do We reward every ungrateful one!

37. Therein will they cry aloud (for assistance): "Our Lord! Bring us out: we shall work righteousness, not the (deeds) we used to do!" - "Did We not give you long enough life so that he that would should receive admonition? And (moreover) the warner came to you. So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds): for the wrong-doers there is no helper."

38. Verily Allah knows (all) the hidden things of the heavens and the earth: verily He has full knowledge of all that is in (men's) hearts.

39. He it is that has made you inheritors in the earth: so he who disbelieves, his disbelief be on his own self. Their disbelief but adds to the odium for the Unbelievers in the sight of their Lord: their rejection but adds to (their own) loss.

40. Say: "Have ye seen (these) 'Partners' of yours whom ye call upon besides Allah. Show me what it is they have created in the (wide) earth. Or have they a share in the heavens? Or have We given them a Book from which they (can derive) clear (evidence)?- Nay, the wrong-doers promise each other nothing but delusions.

41. It is Allah Who sustains the heavens and the earth, lest they cease (to function): and if they should fail, there is none - not one - can sustain them thereafter: Verily He is Most Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving.

42. They swore their strongest oaths by Allah that if a warner came to them, they would be more rightly guided than anyone of the nations: but when a warner came to them, it has only increased their aversion,-

43. On account of their arrogance in the land and their plotting of Evil, but the plotting of Evil will hem in only the authors thereof. Now are they but looking for the way the ancients were dealt with? But no change wilt thou find in Allah's way (of dealing): no turning off wilt thou find in Allah's way (of dealing).

44. Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the End of those before them,- though they were superior to them in strength? Nor is Allah to be frustrated by anything whatever in the heavens or on earth: for He is All-Knowing. All-Powerful.

45. If Allah were to punish men according to what they deserve. He would not leave on the back of the (earth) a single living creature: but He gives them respite for a stated Term: when their Term expires, verily Allah has in His sight all His Servants.

JEST2ASK

Hello Deepthinker ... as this is a public forum ... i am responding to your post even though it was not addressed to me and I was not a participant in the orginal discussion ....

I want to start from the bolded portion of your last statement ... If there can be no valid disproof of God due to the limitations of human knowledge and abilities ... how can there be proof of God ...

The questions is how reliable is divine revealation as opposed to actual observation ...

1 - If it is impossible for something to come from nothing ... Where was God before creation of this universe and who designed, created him/her/it ... to simply assert that your concept of God is the unmoved first cause without actually demonstrating (at least in principal the methodology in a testable fashion) is special pleading and speculation ... I do not know what / who (if anything outside of the inherent laws of matter / energy) caused this universe and I suspect neither do you if you honestly look beyond your pre-suppostions.

2 - What I gather from all the words in your post is that you wish to project onto the universe qualities and attributes ... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (as are other subjective values like order, good, justice, etc etc,).

3 - You say that emotions / feelings are not valid as a foundation for knowledge but your claims are built upon a (IMO) emotional faith in the worldview of your religion. Please do not claim that disbelief is faith and atheism is a religion ... you are free of course to do so but it would only be another difference for us to overcome and take us away from the issues at hand ...

JEST2ASK

I do not have signficant reason / evidence to accept any of the (IMO) human constructs of God as valid and no way to differentiate between them ...
Judaism / Christainity / Islam all connected (and sharing common roots) yet these three do not contain the totality of who / what God is (or believed to be).

Why is disbelief not the default position otherwise we would have to believe everything ... even conflicting worldviews ...


ETA Deepthinker you listed many qualities regarding God / Allah ... how was it determined that the description reflects reality ??? even from a limited human perspective... again what I see is a projection of an observable thing the universe onto the unobserved (Creatator / God / Allah) with no explaination on how that leap was made ...

sunspark

That's an argument from increduality and false analogy, the standard Watchmaker argument which doesn't hold water.

Of course I didn't create myself, and I did answer your question, though my answer you find unsatisfying.

Nothingness isn't a cause but that's certainly the transition we all made: once we did not exist, then we did; we came from nothing into something. To assert God as cause only brings us back to the question: what caused God? How can everything we know be caused but he is exempt?

Yes, we can see pretty, useful and "well-designed" things in nature. We can also see things that would have to called shoddy, at best, if they were designed.

Certainly not my "brand", that was my response to what you said: it's logic that if something exists, we'd see evidence for it. Divine hiddeness is not what I was taught; most theists/theologians say their god is obvious and easily accessible.

I have no reason to believe, no main reason why I don't.

And they don't include the reasons I reject any particular religion, just in case you think I rejected God because I rejected Christianity. IF, for the sake of argument, I were persuaded to believe in a creator, that doesn't mean I'd have any reason to (and wouldn't) accept any existing religion, including Christianity and Islam. Religion is it's own can of worms all by itself.

All claims for God are made by theists, not by himself, they are not self-evident and are often also self-contradictory. Neither Christianity nor Islam makes a convincing (or even nearly convincing) case, and you don't believe in something by default, you believe because the evidence tells you it is true.

The basic definition of God (a powerful, loving creator) is self-contradictory, and with no evidence that he exists at all. IF a God exists, then he is either incompetant, impotent or evil, and so, not God. He does nothing, says nothing and doesn't show himself. I can think of all the problems caused by asserting God and have yet to find any evidence for God. How am I supposed to believe?

Viti

I have a hard time understanding why you came to the conclusion that there is God, and that is the deity as described in the Koran.
I wasn't created I was born...just like every other mammal. Procreation is basically the same for humans as it is for cats. It's not special, really.

Who said nothingness causes our existence? What does that even mean? This is some kind of strawman right here.

The Universe existing proves nothing except that the Universe exists.