Amos

That's correct and very much like a good brother of Jesus we become a Christian in our own right. Notice that when Jesus became fully Christ he was without faith and doubt . . . and therefore Christ. Was also never called Christ until after the resurrection in Mark and in Mark only because Mark goes by appearances.

Of course you can return to the Church, and many did to be the inspiration for the Church. Notice that we are talking "mind of God" here and not just inspired believer.

Jesus doesn't embody Christianity because we have done far greater things, as he said we would . . . and therefore we are the living Church and not a second antiquated religion.

Jesus left the scene never to be seen again, although I think he wrote Revelation which was past for him and future to those who follow him . . . or it would be redundant in the bible.

I am telling you that Christianity is absurd speech because it impossible to belong to freedom.

Zora

That clears up a great deal of my confusion. And Magus55, your utter contempt for and the many insulting comments you have posted about Catholics ("Mary Worshipers") was part of what prompted the question in the first place. Thank you, historians.

Magus55

I don't have contempt for Catholics, I just strongly disagree with what the Catholic Church tries to pass off as doctrine. I'm fully entitled to disagree with the heresy in the Catholic Church.

The Evil One

Strangely enough, they say the same about Protestants. Ah! Who to believe.

funinspace

Yes such a fun question. How about the Mandean's who consider John the Baptist to be their key prophet, and consider Jesus the heritic in their mysterious dualistic religion

DK

Amos

Interesting because Jesus did introduce JBap to Mary as her son at the foot of the cross. "Mother there is your son, son there is your mother."

Jesus was the human Jew and the second nature of Jesus was JBap who first prepared the way for Jesus the Jew and then stepped aside to let this Jewish idenity get crucified on his own. That's also why John wrote Revelation and not Jesus.

funinspace

First I certainly wouldn't defend the validity of their religion. It's just a very interesting cultural group with a very different view of what was happening 2000 years ago. Also they won't even let outsiders see one of their sacred texts...se la vi. And they have their books that call him a heretic and worse for corrupting what they say John the Baptist taught.

Oh, it's now known who wrote Revelations. I would think most mainstream Protestant Scholars would like to hear the news. Turtullian didn't believe it to be authentic. And Augustine also didn't believe that the John wrote it. So you do, I don't find the thiestic apologetics convincing.

DK

I forgot to mention that Martin Luther questioned it's divine inspiration as well.

Amos

I have no problem with their take on John the Baptist but will say that Gnostic religions fail to deliver because they remove the mystery from faith . . . or they would not be gnostic.

It is not important to me who wrote the Revelation but it must have been written by somebody who was capable to do so and here only JBap comes to mind. To me he also wrote the Gospel of John and maybe even the others because they compliment each other in their differences.

Luther had no spiritual insight so he's not one to judge anything.

I must add that I am not a scholar and just state my opinion that is based on a bried survey of the early church.

Vinnie

and I thought Jesus was fully dead after his minsitry?

funinspace

I don't care that you believe "whoever" wrote Revelations. I just picked on it because you stated it like it was a historical fact.

Just curious. Are you saying you believe that the "John the Baptist" that baptized Jesus within the Gospels wrote Revelations? As apposed to John, son of Zebedee? Origen, born A. D. 185, died A. D. 254, argued like most Xians for this John: "John who leaned on the bosom of Jesus has left us one gospel, and he wrote also the Apocalypse." He speaks of this John as "being the son of Zebedee;" also as being "condemned to the Isle of Patmos for bearing his testimony to the word. of truth." If so maybe you can better understand why I made my joke in the first place. There appear to be a thousand truths out there. And most every Xian out there gets to pick and choose who does and does not have "spiritual insight". I just picked a cornucopia of historical Xians out there that seriously question key aspects of the history of Revelations.

Actually the Mandeans have a very alien (from Xianity) view of who John the Baptist was. To them he was something like a teacher in their dualistic religion. Some think they traveled from Egypt-Israel-and eventually today's Iraq. But that's has allot of speculation.

DK