Freethought & Rationalism Archive

John W. Loftus · 12-07-2009, 08:25 AM

The important thing about these kind of deconversion stories for Biblical Criticism and apologetics is that they never sound like the person wanted to reject God. We wanted the gospel to be true. We put our whole lives into serving God. It is quite literally life shattering to find out we were wrong.

They also adequately describe why it's so hard to help Christians see their faith for the delusion it is. It's because they want it to be true. It's because it would be life-shattering for them to admit they're wrong.

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspo...ion-story.html

Cheers.

manwithdream · 12-07-2009, 10:01 AM

So a guy lost faith in Christianity. Just because Christianity has problems does not mean every religion is false.

Kenneth Greifer

http://www.messianicmistakes.com/

aa5874 · 12-07-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manwithdream

So a guy lost faith in Christianity. Just because Christianity has problems does not mean every religion is false.

Kenneth Greifer

http://www.messianicmistakes.com/

Please name some of the true religions if you know any.

manwithdream · 12-07-2009, 10:48 AM

aa5874,

I believe in G-d and I believe the Torah is true.

Kenneth Greifer

http://www.messianicmistakes.com/

show_no_mercy · 12-07-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manwithdream

aa5874,

I believe in G-d and I believe the Torah is true.

Kenneth Greifer

http://www.messianicmistakes.com/

So you believe that the Torah was actually written by Moses? That there was an Exodus? That Joshua really invaded Canaan and kicked everyone's ass? That there was a historic "unified kingdom" under David and Solomon?

manwithdream · 12-07-2009, 11:07 AM

show no mercy,

Yes, I believe the Torah is true, although I believe that people made some mistakes in some written details in passing it down, but I don't think the whole Torah is wrong because people are not perfect. A mistake here and there by human beings does not mean G-d doesn't exist.

Kenneth greifer

semiopen · 12-07-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manwithdream

show no mercy,

Yes, I believe the Torah is true, although I believe that people made some mistakes in some written details in passing it down, but I don't think the whole Torah is wrong because people are not perfect. A mistake here and there by human beings does not mean G-d doesn't exist.

Kenneth greifer

I agree with the 8th commandment which prohibits the kidnapping of Jews. However, this does not prove that God does exist.

Toto · 12-07-2009, 11:48 AM

To keep this on topic:

Quote:

However, all this changed when I was about twelve-and-a-half years old. One day I was reading my Bible when I came across the Book of Revelation. For some hitherto inexplicable reason, I was totally gripped and enthralled with the vivid imagery and story line of the book. I did not understand much of the alien symbolism but somehow reading that book triggered something deep inside of me. I was so moved by the text that I experienced something I can only describe as a spiritual rebirth.

...

After school I enrolled at the local university to study theology. During the first few years I came to discover that the Bible was a much more complex book than I could ever imagine despite all the times I had previously spent reading through it. Of course, I was not a little upset when some of the professors seemed to say things that were at odds with what I had learned at Sunday school and from all the devotional books I had collected over the years.

All the talk about historical critical issues, hermeneutical problems and the beliefs of other ancient Near Eastern religions were somewhat offensive to my naive conservative evangelical sensibilities. Maybe that is why, in those days, my favourite subject was dogmatic theology. This subject, taught as it was by conservative yet respectable and intellectually gifted scholars, provided me with the kind of interesting and relevant knowledge that I liked and which confirmed and supplemented what I had learned in Sunday school.

spin · 12-09-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John W. Loftus

The important thing about these kind of deconversion stories for Biblical Criticism and apologetics is that they never sound like the person wanted to reject God. We wanted the gospel to be true. We put our whole lives into serving God. It is quite literally life shattering to find out we were wrong.

They also adequately describe why it's so hard to help Christians see their faith for the delusion it is. It's because they want it to be true. It's because it would be life-shattering for them to admit they're wrong.

Although we don't like the christian response to such happenings, it is coherent: when a person chooses his/her own logic over the will of god, s/he is placing him/herself above god and this leads to folly. Religion is based on the notion of Islam, ie "submission". It's never a matter of logic and responsibility.

Deconversion is though a propaganda issue. It's like cold war defection.

spin

Solo · 12-09-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John W. Loftus

The important thing about these kind of deconversion stories for Biblical Criticism and apologetics is that they never sound like the person wanted to reject God. We wanted the gospel to be true. We put our whole lives into serving God. It is quite literally life shattering to find out we were wrong.

Put your whole life into serving God and the son of a gun goes AWOL ...quite literally, life shattering....yeah, yeah, ....and what else would you have us, simple folks, believe today, magister ?

Jiri

12-07-2009, 08:25 AM	#1
John W. Loftus Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 126	Dr. Jaco Gericke's Deconversion Story The important thing about these kind of deconversion stories for Biblical Criticism and apologetics is that they never sound like the person wanted to reject God. We wanted the gospel to be true. We put our whole lives into serving God. It is quite literally life shattering to find out we were wrong. They also adequately describe why it's so hard to help Christians see their faith for the delusion it is. It's because they want it to be true. It's because it would be life-shattering for them to admit they're wrong. http://debunkingchristianity.blogspo...ion-story.html Cheers.

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12-07-2009, 10:01 AM	#2
manwithdream Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: united states Posts: 156	So a guy lost faith in Christianity. Just because Christianity has problems does not mean every religion is false. Kenneth Greifer http://www.messianicmistakes.com/

12-07-2009, 10:48 AM	#4
manwithdream Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: united states Posts: 156	aa5874, I believe in G-d and I believe the Torah is true. Kenneth Greifer http://www.messianicmistakes.com/

12-07-2009, 11:07 AM	#6
manwithdream Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: united states Posts: 156	show no mercy, Yes, I believe the Torah is true, although I believe that people made some mistakes in some written details in passing it down, but I don't think the whole Torah is wrong because people are not perfect. A mistake here and there by human beings does not mean G-d doesn't exist. Kenneth greifer

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