Stacey Melissa

Yes, as mentioned in my first post to this thread, there are a great many things. I gave examples. So did Not-for-Prophet.

Is there any evidence for non-belief in God, or unreliability of the Biblical record that you will concede to?

Nuwanda

Sort of. If it turns out to be conclusively false then scholars and archeologists will look elsewhere, keeping the search alive. I'm sure you would agree that proper investigation of Biblical claims authorizes further study, hence, the atheist remains in their state of unbelief and the believer continues the search.

You raise a valid point though. Those who believe in God are not bound to the limits of nature and science so it is difficult to break through to some of them. But I've found the leap of faith prevelant in atheism just as much as in religion. This is the core of my question - what evidence is sufficient for the atheistic mind? I don't believe there is any. And, if I'm correct then there isn't much difference in the mindset of the religious and the mindset of the irreligious

doubtingt

That's just it. Even confirmed chariot wheels from that era could be rationally concluded to be evidence of the Biblical account. There is nothing strange or unexpected about ancient wheels off the coast of Egypt. If God did not exist, and the Bible were entirely false, we would still not be surprised and would even expect, objects from those civilizations to find their way into nearby sea. Thus, finding such objects does nothing to bolster the plausibility of (let alone provide "proof") of the Bible story.

Hell, even entire chariots with horse carcasses wouldn't be sufficient for a reasoning mind. It would be far more plausible that people were attempting to cross on a barge and it capsized, and the account became fictionalized over time.

You have concluded this is strong evidence for Biblical accuracy only by closing your mind to the numerous and far more plausible accounts that abound.

fromdownunder

Nuwanda, this subject is of interest to me, and I would like to continue the discussion along your lines. But first I need to know what you mean by an atheistic "leap of faith". I am afraid I don't understand the comment.

Norm

Nuwanda

Your original post is obviously geared for comedy and not for debate, unless of course that is the depth to which you are persuaded by evidence, in which case my assuption is correct - there can be no evidence for the atheist mindset.

In answer to your question, there are plenty of things that are evidence against God's existance and unreliability of the Bible. Any honest believer would tell you the same. The fact that I'm still a believer is evidence that I have not been swayed by the opposition. Belief in God is ultimately a faith leap, I believe He purposely set it up that way and I'm perfectly comfortable with it. Concerning the Bible, I have spent half a lifetime studying it and I have found that what most people use to attack the Bible usually ends up validating it instead.

arricchio

Flame mode on: :devil:

You see, it's just garbage like this that makes me glad I'm an atheist.

Okay, show of hands: How many think the item shown in the top photograph on the website is an actual chariot wheel. And how many think it's the hatch wheel off a sunken ship? The photo further down looks suspiciously like the cowling off of an electric motor, don't you think?

Oh, and they can't get more divers down there to check things out? Nonsense. The Red Sea is one of the best places in the entire world for shipwreck divers. In fact it's one of the most lucrative tourist attractions in the entire Middle East. Lot's of shipwrecks, lot's of divers, lot's of photos of sunken things. See how it works?

Now, did you actually read the bio of the guy who posted this "proof". Did you see the photo of him in front of his "God's Treasure Museum" in Gatlinburg. It's a cheezy tourist trap! He was mocked by Jay Leno on the Tonight Show because of his screwy Jesus Sci-Fi crap - and he's PROUD of it. Did you read his "one bank" financial scheme he wants people to invest in? His entire website screams "crackpot".

Look mate, if anybody is going to prove that Moses miraculously wiped out Pharoah's army in the middle of the Red Sea, it's not going to be this schmuck. And I don't know what kind of "proof" I need as an atheist, but I can sure tell you it'll have to be a helleva lot better than this.

You see, people like you are why I'm not a "believer". You fall for the first scam artist who comes along because he shows you a picture that he says confirms what you've believed along. You don't even have the sense to check his credibility further. And you bring it here hoping, I can only suppose, to convert us poor ignorant heathens.

If you tried, you could not have insulted my intelligence more.

Not-For-Prophet

I dont "desire" to maintain my position as an atheist, I'm an atheist due to lack of the slightest shred of credible evidence to support the existence of god/s of any sort. I would certainly be happy to look at evidence from a credible source, but I'm certainly not going to bother looking at evidence that is presented by a source that is already a known fraudster. In addition, I require quite extraordianary evidence in the face of extraordianary claims. I would be glad to rethink my position as an atheist in the face of such evidence. Chariot wheels, even if authentic, certainly do not rise to that standard.

parkdalian

I think the Bible may reflect some truth, just as there could be a real Camelot, a real Merlin, but the real persons, places and events are interpreted superstitiously in the stories passed down. I think it is imprudent to dismiss traditional stories as being totally fabricated.

It's to be expected that primitive peoples would fail to distinguish miracles from extraordinary natural events beyond their understanding, and assume they are attributable to their particular god.

Stacey Melissa

Many Biblical claims are prima facie absurd. Talking snakes? All species fitting on a boat for 40 days? Bodily resurrection? C'mon. The only reason they merit further study is because so many people believe them and mold their lives around them.

I wouldn't doubt there are plenty of atheists who take it on faith that there are no gods. You just won't find many of them at this message board.

I gave some playful examples of evidence that I would quite seriously accept as outright proof of the existence of your god. Every post in this thread, I've made with honest debate in mind.

You've made non squitur fallacy and a fallacy of composition there.

Fair enough.

Hehe, just stick around. If you're an inerrantist, I've got some fun little Bible puzzles for you... :devil3:

Nuwanda

Do you mean "you don't understand it" or that you don't believe it?

I assume, rightly or wrongly, that most atheist will acknowledge a degree of faith in their position if they critically examine atheism. There are some things that are exempt from faith. For example, you cannot say that to believe that drinking water is necessary to live is a leap of faith. It is necessary for life to continue. It is not a matter of faith/no faith. As far as I know, there is not an "ism" out there that is a necessary belief. All are held with a degree of faith and/or trust.

I can understand if an atheist does not want "faith" to be related to their position because it smacks of religion, but that's not what I mean when I use the word as it relates to atheism. In an honest analysis, an atheist would agree that their position requires some "faith like" trust that what they believe is true. At least that's my experience in talking with atheists, but I could be wrong.

Where do we disagree?