Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Dalharuk · 11-13-2003, 01:37 PM

I entirely agree with Tancred, well almost. We are all just temporal and everything is meaningless. We are just part of a great cause-effect bullshit and no free will exist for our mind is depend on the mechanical chemicals reaction going on our mind. I am only aware that I am aware because what ended up being awareness to us by a chain effect is a sum of things we witness as being ours, in our awareness. Self awareness might be a freaking impossible concept or some sort of universal error but hey, I am.

However, fear, curiosity, survival instinct and such things keep me alive. There is also doubt. Why would I shoot myself in the head if I know I know nothing ? Maybe I am wrong, maybe not. Maybe knowledge is totaly meaningless and the universe not made of atoms, etc.

But in everyday life, do I seriously think about that? No. Do I wake up at morning and tell myself "I am nothing. I exist because of the universe, and the universe exist because of me. So nothing is. Everything is an illusion and even I the one who witness this illusion am an illusion. "I think so I am?" wrong. How can I tell that the thoughs I feel are thoughs I choose? My choices doesnt exist. I only feel I choose. It is the feeling choice."? Of course I dont.

Why dont you kill yourself? Your years on Earth are so short compare to those infinite in your heaven or hell. So infinitely short, it isnt that much of a loss to shoot a bullet in your head? However, in my case, I have only one chance to experience who I presently am. So killing myself isnt a great idea.

B34RZ0R · 11-13-2003, 06:47 PM

anyone else notice that whatshisnuts hasn't come back to this thread?

I think this was a drive by posting.. and a pretty poorly thought out one at that.

B34R

Weltall · 11-13-2003, 08:30 PM

Well, I keep living because as far as I can tell it's the only chance I've got. Sure, even only a hundred years from now nothing that we do individually will really matter (unless you're one of those really influential people like Ghandi) but as a collective our lives can influence the future greatly. Just because I won't be around to see the future doesn't mean I can't try to contribute to it in my own little way. Just to respond to something Dalharuk said, I do think that we have the ability to choose our actions. For example, my decision to put on a jacket before leaving this morning was something I decided to do; I could have chosen otherwise. I don't feel that such choice is an illusion.

orpheus last chant · 11-13-2003, 11:59 PM

Relating to his profile, I don't think he is an atheist. The topic itself is: Realise what you are. his stereotypal description of atheists is the standard used by (extreme, fundy) christians.
Notice the "if we take for granted that god does not exist..."
He also capitalises the word "atheist".

His profile....I think it's just another way for him to show us who we are: nihilists and amoral pricks who pass the time to oblivion by fighting and having sex etc.

To Tancred:

You seem to know very little of what atheists are. Instead of you telling me who I am, I shall be nice, and try to be serious this time, and direct you to some educational links:

If you are interested in finding out why we are atheists (keep in mind that we are rather an heterogenous group) go read some testimonies at this link:

Atheist "testimony"

If you want to know what we are (and by golly, we are quite some nice looking primates) go check this link:
II photo gallery

If you want to make arguments that will not be put here for lack of serious content check this list of logical fallcies (I suggest you read up especially sweeping generalisation, straw-man, loaded question):

Fallacies

Concerning the "no god= no morals" check the MF&P and read up on objectivity subjectivity...

Go ahead, take your time...

orpheus last chant · 11-14-2003, 12:14 AM

Quote:

What I'm saying here is that in a totally godless universe, devoid of spirituality, there is no reason to do anything. There is no forum for moral debate or discussion of any kind.

What you are suffering from is the hidden premise of "either objective morals or none"

Quote:

Death:
Do you have any conception of the NEGATION of you CONSCIOUSNESS?

Sure, thought about it. It's much better than immortal life concept. Also, one is free to believe in (what was the name again) quantum immortality, meaning big bang, big crunch, big bang, big crunch forever...also makeing you appear every universe or so...

Quote:

Why do you insist on the worth of ANY endeavour when it will ultimately be reduced to component atoms?

Because it makes a great pass time. because it bring temporary pleasure. any endeavour that would last forever will be ...well...hell.

Quote:

In an infinite timeline the human race and all of its accomplishments will be destroyed and forgotten beyond all hope of retreival.

No, really?

Happily not only the accomplishments but the wrong doings and awful things we screwed up will get also forgotten. Seems like a fair deal.

Quote:

Quit trying to shift it to what I beleive and mention something relevant.

*yawn* follow your own advice....

Quote:

For all of you think I'm stupid, I can assure you I'm not.

Oh, should we take your word for it? I don't know how smart you are, but it seems your maturity is lacking...

Quote:

I'm pisssed off and I may be crude, but my arguments have value.

Your "arguments" are old, recycled straw-men that have been used to death since Dostoievsky...

:boohoo:

Nowhere357 · 11-14-2003, 02:29 AM

Shoot, I was told we're equal to cheeseburgers - now I'm confused.

Which has more value - cheeseburgers or pigs??

HelenM · 11-14-2003, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by orpheus last chant
Relating to his profile, I don't think he is an atheist. The topic itself is: Realise what you are. his stereotypal description of atheists is the standard used by (extreme, fundy) christians.
Notice the "if we take for granted that god does not exist..."
He also capitalises the word "atheist".

His profile....I think it's just another way for him to show us who we are: nihilists and amoral pricks who pass the time to oblivion by fighting and having sex etc.

That's interesting conjecture but evidently you missed this in his second post:

Quote:

Originally posted by Tancred
[...]
Who is making the morals? Not God, he doesn't exist.

[...]

Helen

Lanakila · 11-14-2003, 05:03 AM

I still think its a Christian troll. I have seen them many times. Helen people lie all the time. He may claim to be an atheist but he is painting atheists with the sterotype that many born agains have of them. This sorta gives it away, don't you think?

HelenM · 11-14-2003, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FormerFundie
I still think its a Christian troll. I have seen them many times. Helen people lie all the time. He may claim to be an atheist but he is painting atheists with the sterotype that many born agains have of them. This sorta gives it away, don't you think?

It makes no sense to me to do what you are doing - i.e. dismiss Tancred's actual words as lies because you want to make him fit your supposed stereotype of 'hateful Christian come to attack atheists on an atheist discussion board'.

Many on this thread have assumed he is a Christian despite his words in his profile and second post to the contrary.

Why is that? Is it because you want to believe that everyone so hostile must be a Christian? Is it a problem for you to consider that an atheist could have posted this way?

Ok, so let's suppose you've seen posts similar to this claiming to be from Christians in. Has it occurred to you that they might not be from Christians at all? That they might be posted by atheist trolls? Perhaps none of them were from genuine Christians. If atheists can write sites like Landover Baptist they certainly can pretend to be Christians on discussion boards. I've seen some admit to it, in fact.

Helen

andy_d · 11-14-2003, 06:28 AM

Helen, I kinda read this:

Quote:

Originally posted by Tancred

Who is making the morals? Not God, he doesn't exist.

as being facetious. Look at the rest of the paragraph. He's proposing alternative viewpoints and their ramifications, not outlining his own manifesto.

His profile also seems to be somewhat, er, shall we say "satirical"

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11-13-2003, 01:37 PM	#31
Dalharuk Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Earth? Posts: 62	I entirely agree with Tancred, well almost. We are all just temporal and everything is meaningless. We are just part of a great cause-effect bullshit and no free will exist for our mind is depend on the mechanical chemicals reaction going on our mind. I am only aware that I am aware because what ended up being awareness to us by a chain effect is a sum of things we witness as being ours, in our awareness. Self awareness might be a freaking impossible concept or some sort of universal error but hey, I am. However, fear, curiosity, survival instinct and such things keep me alive. There is also doubt. Why would I shoot myself in the head if I know I know nothing ? Maybe I am wrong, maybe not. Maybe knowledge is totaly meaningless and the universe not made of atoms, etc. But in everyday life, do I seriously think about that? No. Do I wake up at morning and tell myself "I am nothing. I exist because of the universe, and the universe exist because of me. So nothing is. Everything is an illusion and even I the one who witness this illusion am an illusion. "I think so I am?" wrong. How can I tell that the thoughs I feel are thoughs I choose? My choices doesnt exist. I only feel I choose. It is the feeling choice."? Of course I dont. Why dont you kill yourself? Your years on Earth are so short compare to those infinite in your heaven or hell. So infinitely short, it isnt that much of a loss to shoot a bullet in your head? However, in my case, I have only one chance to experience who I presently am. So killing myself isnt a great idea.

11-13-2003, 06:47 PM	#32
B34RZ0R Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Lost in the Ether, Minnesota Posts: 1,436	anyone else notice that whatshisnuts hasn't come back to this thread? I think this was a drive by posting.. and a pretty poorly thought out one at that. B34R

11-13-2003, 08:30 PM	#33
Weltall Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 3,283	Well, I keep living because as far as I can tell it's the only chance I've got. Sure, even only a hundred years from now nothing that we do individually will really matter (unless you're one of those really influential people like Ghandi) but as a collective our lives can influence the future greatly. Just because I won't be around to see the future doesn't mean I can't try to contribute to it in my own little way. Just to respond to something Dalharuk said, I do think that we have the ability to choose our actions. For example, my decision to put on a jacket before leaving this morning was something I decided to do; I could have chosen otherwise. I don't feel that such choice is an illusion.

11-13-2003, 11:59 PM	#34
orpheus last chant Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Romania Posts: 4,975	Relating to his profile, I don't think he is an atheist. The topic itself is: Realise what you are. his stereotypal description of atheists is the standard used by (extreme, fundy) christians. Notice the "if we take for granted that god does not exist..." He also capitalises the word "atheist". His profile....I think it's just another way for him to show us who we are: nihilists and amoral pricks who pass the time to oblivion by fighting and having sex etc. To Tancred: You seem to know very little of what atheists are. Instead of you telling me who I am, I shall be nice, and try to be serious this time, and direct you to some educational links: If you are interested in finding out why we are atheists (keep in mind that we are rather an heterogenous group) go read some testimonies at this link: Atheist "testimony" If you want to know what we are (and by golly, we are quite some nice looking primates) go check this link: II photo gallery If you want to make arguments that will not be put here for lack of serious content check this list of logical fallcies (I suggest you read up especially sweeping generalisation, straw-man, loaded question): Fallacies Concerning the "no god= no morals" check the MF&P and read up on objectivity subjectivity... Go ahead, take your time...

11-14-2003, 02:29 AM	#36
Nowhere357 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Grand Junction CO Posts: 2,231	Shoot, I was told we're equal to cheeseburgers - now I'm confused. Which has more value - cheeseburgers or pigs??

11-14-2003, 05:03 AM	#38
Lanakila Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,858	I still think its a Christian troll. I have seen them many times. Helen people lie all the time. He may claim to be an atheist but he is painting atheists with the sterotype that many born agains have of them. This sorta gives it away, don't you think?

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