Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hatsoff · 09-16-2006, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Her pinkness saves

well the contradiction i think he sees is:

first pasage: sinning will cause something worse to happen to you.
second passage: good/bad things happen to you regardless of your sin[sin isn't the cause].

But those are not contradictory ideas. Sinning brings harm upon he who sins, according to the first passage. The second passage, meanwhile, is a caution not to expect a perfect life just because you're a believer.

I don't understand JS. With so many geniune contradictions in the Bible, why pull out a fake?

John Kesler · 09-16-2006, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzim77

First of all, this passage [John 5:14] does not intend to answer the question, "Did Jesus believe that misfortune is because of sin?" So an attempt to draw a conclusion to that question from this passage is a bit unfair. Also, I proposed an interpretation to this passage (above) that suggests that Jesus was not necessarily linking specific sins (unlawful actions) with misfortune.

Whether Jesus intended to answer this question doesn't change the fact that Jesus conected sinning and misfortune: "Do not sin any more, so that nothing worse happens to you."

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzim77

I'm not sure why you put this one [Luke 5:18-20] in the 'YES' category? Here we see Jesus forgives the man's sins. But the man is not healed at that point. Next Jesus heals the man's handicap. Two seperate acts of Jesus. This would indicate that his handicap was NOT a result of specific sins he or his parents commited. (although the Pharisees held this to be the case).

Carefully read verse 24: "But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"--he said to the one who was paralyzed--"I say to you, stand up and take your bed and go to your home."

The "scribes and Pharisees" (v:21) challenged Jesus' authority to forgive sins, and Jesus' proof that he had this authority was the healing. So contrary to your assertion, Jesus indeed connected sin with the infirmity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzim77

So, you can see that these passages are not in contradiction.

To the contrary, these passages do conflict with the views of John 9 and Luke 13.

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